Van's Air Force
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Serious issue preventing me from working on my -10
- Thread starter Palamedes
- Start date
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Well Known Member
Your parts are still small enough... That's what living room s are for
Careful what you wish for, although it is quite a bit colder 'up north'
. Not sure if you're working in an A/Cd shop, but seems like yesterday I was laying in the tailcone sweating all over myself, the tools, the parts; unable to see, hold tools, etc. Truly miserable some days. I went for about 2 weeks straight without working on anything because it was so stinking hot!... it's fricken cold out!
Seriously it's 19?F outside and the heaters in my garage have waived the white flag..
I can't wait for it to warm up..
Come to Alaska...where it's warm!
... it's fricken cold out!
Seriously it's 19?F outside and the heaters in my garage have waived the white flag..
I can't wait for it to warm up..
Don't wait! Bring the parts to the house!
rleffler
Well Known Member
I don't know what everyone is complaining about, I just spent 2.5 days in the hangar working on my RV-10. The high was 9f. On Saturday, there was 30k winds and snow squalls. I had to shovel twice due to the wind driving snow through all the gaps in the doors.
I would have loved to have 19f. The hangar is unheated. My 130k btu kerosene heater barely got it up to 32f.
It took me about four times as long to do any task due to the cold.
On the bright side, I got to spend the weekend working on my RV!
I would have loved to have 19f. The hangar is unheated. My 130k btu kerosene heater barely got it up to 32f.
It took me about four times as long to do any task due to the cold.
On the bright side, I got to spend the weekend working on my RV!
aarvig
Well Known Member
... it's fricken cold out!
Seriously it's 19?F outside and the heaters in my garage have waived the white flag..
I can't wait for it to warm up..
19 degrees! Thats a heat wave. Its -10 here this morning. Yes thats MINUS 10. There are no justifiable reasons to quit working on a project unless it is below zero.
Jerry Cochran
Well Known Member
61f in Newberg OR 2S6 and I had to close the hangar door because the Sun was way too bright in the PM yesterday!
But that's Oregon in Feb. for ya!
Just sayin' ;-)
Jerry
But that's Oregon in Feb. for ya!
Just sayin' ;-)
Jerry
DaleB
Well Known Member
It's been warm, then cold, then colder here. We had a week or two of temps in the 40s, followed by low teens or worse. I don't think it's been above freezing outside for a week or so now, and of course at night when I can work in the garage it's "darn cold". I typically fire up the kerosene and electric heaters half an hour before I go out to work, and wear a sweatshirt.
I don't mind sweating in the summer, but I do hate this winter cold BS. That's why we're taking an extra day or two down in TX to check out places to live. I want to be able to hang a snow shovel on the wall of the hangar and have people ask me what the heck it is.
When it's cold enough the heaters can't get it above 40 in the garage, I stay inside and work on the electrical diagrams, or look for parts, or catch up on the things I have been neglecting while working on the plane.
I don't mind sweating in the summer, but I do hate this winter cold BS. That's why we're taking an extra day or two down in TX to check out places to live. I want to be able to hang a snow shovel on the wall of the hangar and have people ask me what the heck it is.
When it's cold enough the heaters can't get it above 40 in the garage, I stay inside and work on the electrical diagrams, or look for parts, or catch up on the things I have been neglecting while working on the plane.
BillL
Well Known Member
Before complaining about working in weather, look at this video. Watch the whole thing, then . . . be inspired!
Personally I would not want to do it, but it would be an adventure.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ruArctYYbM
FYI this was posted here a few days ago, I just added this link.
Personally I would not want to do it, but it would be an adventure.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ruArctYYbM
FYI this was posted here a few days ago, I just added this link.
maniago
Well Known Member
I just came in from the garage. Been using a forced kerosene heater in there all winter long. Get a good CO detector with a read out and have at it. Helps to have a pretty leaky garage - bit more margin on the bad gasses. It does warm my garage up in about 10 mins and I turn it on and off manually as I need it. For sure, I'm not out there in shorts and a teeshirt though.
Palamedes
Well Known Member
I have been using a propane bottle heater and it works-ish.. the garage today was about 10?F which wasn't fun, and the little propane heater really has a radius of about 5 feet..haha
My garage is more than a little leaky.. it's a lot leaky!
I'm pondering insulating the garage doors but not sure how much that would help or if it would just put a lot of strain on the garage door opener..
I like the idea of adding a dedicated heater to the garage, but without fixing the "leaky" problem I would just be heating the great outdoors.
Until I sort it out I'll just bundle up and "suffer" =) A couple more hours went into it yesterday. I think my propane bottle is running low though.
Does a kerosene heater heat a larger area? I've never used one.
My garage is more than a little leaky.. it's a lot leaky!
I'm pondering insulating the garage doors but not sure how much that would help or if it would just put a lot of strain on the garage door opener..
I like the idea of adding a dedicated heater to the garage, but without fixing the "leaky" problem I would just be heating the great outdoors.
Until I sort it out I'll just bundle up and "suffer" =) A couple more hours went into it yesterday. I think my propane bottle is running low though.
Does a kerosene heater heat a larger area? I've never used one.
For the first couple of years on my first RV-10 I suffered through winters (Omaha area) with a kerosene heater in the garage. I then broke down and installed one of these: http://beacon-morris.com/html/garage_heater_bru.asp
Best thing I ever did! They come in multiple sizes and are thermostatically controlled. Early in the build of my second RV-10 we built a new house and I installed another from the start.
Being able to warm up the garage to enable working in shirt sleeves in the winter is a wonderful thing! Also, don't discount the benefit of being ability to stand on concrete and work with tools like pneumatic rivet squeezers that aren't cold-soaked!
Dale along with several other RV builders were just over last weekend when the OAT was in the teens - we were able to chat, drink coffee and munch snacks in amazing comfort...
Bob
Best thing I ever did! They come in multiple sizes and are thermostatically controlled. Early in the build of my second RV-10 we built a new house and I installed another from the start.
Being able to warm up the garage to enable working in shirt sleeves in the winter is a wonderful thing! Also, don't discount the benefit of being ability to stand on concrete and work with tools like pneumatic rivet squeezers that aren't cold-soaked!
Dale along with several other RV builders were just over last weekend when the OAT was in the teens - we were able to chat, drink coffee and munch snacks in amazing comfort...
Bob
Wood Stove...
I was using a multi-fuel torpedo heater, but the exhaust and noise was too much for me. So I built a Barrel Stove, I used concrete blocks around it to protect me, the dogs and exposures and acts as a heat sink. Works GREAT! had the garage around 70 degrees and it was 3 outside. Took a while to build and inspect and re-inspect everything, last thing I want is a chimney fire, but so far so good, now just have to actually find TIME to work and I cant use temp as a excuse.....
I was using a multi-fuel torpedo heater, but the exhaust and noise was too much for me. So I built a Barrel Stove, I used concrete blocks around it to protect me, the dogs and exposures and acts as a heat sink. Works GREAT! had the garage around 70 degrees and it was 3 outside. Took a while to build and inspect and re-inspect everything, last thing I want is a chimney fire, but so far so good, now just have to actually find TIME to work and I cant use temp as a excuse.....
BillL
Well Known Member
I don't know what kind of garage door you have, but I have 4" wall and ceiling and an insulated door. It is -3 outside and with sun it stays 40 ish. I have an old electric heater from a furnace, and using 25 amps@220v - it heats the garage just fine. With two cars it comes up 10 deg/hr on a day like today, starting at 40. Late December it was -10 all day and I got the garage toasty at 70. It only dropped to 50 over night so if kept warm it heats up faster.
You could easily add 1" styrofoam to the door, but need to seal the perimeter with webseal, and a "d" seal for the floor. 2" is better and if heavy, preload spring some more.
Beware of kerosene as it has sulfur and tools are the last thing to warm up. The water and sulfur make H2SO4 - acid and will condense on tools in a tool box. Over time corrosion is an issue.
For your climate, seal, insulate, and a 220v electric heater should do quite well.
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DaleB
Well Known Member
I have one of the round kerosene convection type heaters. It would work better if I didn't have 10' ceilings in the garage. I'm sure it's toasty warm up where the cobwebs are. I use an oscillating IR electric heater to move warm(er) air around for better effect. I've thought about a ceiling fan too. The kerosene heater is quite happy burning Jet A, by the way, and it's silent.
We replaced our wood garage doors with insulated steel years ago, and I can tell you that it made a BIG difference and the garage door opener has not complained. There is a big torsion spring counterbalance anyway, so it shouldn't put much (if any) any more strain on the opener.
I was in another guy's garage where they had blown insulation into the walls. I am thinking about doing that myself, but I'm really hoping this is the last winter I'll be building in the garage. It's too late to mess with it this winter, but probably when we have new siding put on the house this spring I will do it from the outside. Can't be too expensive, and I would not complain about having a warmer garage even if I'm not out there building every night.
Bob's place is VERY nice! The other RV-10 builder I visited last month had a similarly nice garage. These guys have a Garage Mahal compared to mine... squeaky clean and toasty warm. I don't think I'll be installing the big gas heater though.
We replaced our wood garage doors with insulated steel years ago, and I can tell you that it made a BIG difference and the garage door opener has not complained. There is a big torsion spring counterbalance anyway, so it shouldn't put much (if any) any more strain on the opener.
I was in another guy's garage where they had blown insulation into the walls. I am thinking about doing that myself, but I'm really hoping this is the last winter I'll be building in the garage. It's too late to mess with it this winter, but probably when we have new siding put on the house this spring I will do it from the outside. Can't be too expensive, and I would not complain about having a warmer garage even if I'm not out there building every night.
Bob's place is VERY nice! The other RV-10 builder I visited last month had a similarly nice garage. These guys have a Garage Mahal compared to mine... squeaky clean and toasty warm. I don't think I'll be installing the big gas heater though.
rleffler
Well Known Member
The answer is, it depends......
You can get various BTU outputs regardless of the fuel used to heat it.
When I originally looked at heaters (I'm in a city owned T-Hangar with a 15a electrical circuit), kerosene was the most cost effective solution. I also didn't want to haul the 40g propane tanks to get refilled either.
I have a 130k btu torpedo kerosene heater. I can raise the temperature in the hangar 25-30 degrees with it. I found that using a box fan pointed at the ceiling of the hangar does wonders to circulate all that hot air around the ceiling. It burns about a gallon/hour if its running consistently. Mine does have a built in thermostat, which I highly recommend. The downside is the noise, smell, and potential CO issues. There are additives for kerosene to help reduce the odor. A CO monitor is a must have.
There is a newer technology kerosene heater that a couple friends have purchased this past year. This unit you can barely hear it, even when standing nearby. The downside is that the list price is about $2k. Geoff Combs and Pete Britton are both on VAF, so they may volunteer their experience if somebody asks them.
Just to be clear - my point wasn't to try to push what I did as the solution for everybody. Having your work environment be comfortable makes a HUGE difference in your productivity. Whatever you can do to achieve that will pay great dividends. For those just getting started and working in a garage in a cold climate, seriously consider some sort of permanent heat upgrade. Just about everybody I know that's done it initially considered it too much money (usually a few hundred $ plus install). Talk to those same people and they'll tell you that it was something they should have done much earlier.
Bob
Bob
maniago
Well Known Member
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Dyna-Glo...Portable-Heater-KFA75H/202816129?N=5yc1vZc4k7
You can get these pretty much anywhere. One good point about them, which I hadn't considered until I saw it used as such, is with a little flexible ducting, they will double as an engine pre-heater after your airplane is built.....K1 is about $4/gal, so depending on how you use it, can be way more expensive than an in garage heater off your existing natgas supply. Def need to have a ceiling fan to move the heat around though.
You can get these pretty much anywhere. One good point about them, which I hadn't considered until I saw it used as such, is with a little flexible ducting, they will double as an engine pre-heater after your airplane is built.....K1 is about $4/gal, so depending on how you use it, can be way more expensive than an in garage heater off your existing natgas supply. Def need to have a ceiling fan to move the heat around though.
Paul K
Well Known Member
Man I wish it would get up to 19 here! Every day for the last several weeks, I watch my OAT showing on my car dash and it's usually well negative. This morning, -13f. Also haven't flown but twice in the last 6 weeks, just to darn cold. Even with my RV in a heated hangar it's hard to get excited about pulling it out.
RV3bpilot
Well Known Member
Cold in Georgia
Some of the guys will tell you that's not cold, but I'm with you when it is colder than 30 degrees F. the fingers do not work well and one looses body temperature quick. So now I wear insulated coveralls for my body and for my fingers I build a small tent over the aircraft that way what ever type of heat you use it not have to heat much space.
I've been working on different electrical ideas through out the winter. Two weeks ago when I went flying I had to first pre-heat the engine and hangar door motor then break loose the hangar door from the ice. Outside air temp. that morning was -4 F. on the ground. Cheers...
Some of the guys will tell you that's not cold, but I'm with you when it is colder than 30 degrees F. the fingers do not work well and one looses body temperature quick. So now I wear insulated coveralls for my body and for my fingers I build a small tent over the aircraft that way what ever type of heat you use it not have to heat much space.
I've been working on different electrical ideas through out the winter. Two weeks ago when I went flying I had to first pre-heat the engine and hangar door motor then break loose the hangar door from the ice. Outside air temp. that morning was -4 F. on the ground. Cheers...
flion
Well Known Member
My wife says I spend too much time at the bar...
Seriously, though, my major work stopper is teaching; during the semester the students and grading takes up a huge amount of time outside class. And when I get back to it in the summer, I've usually forgotten where I left off before. I do get some stuff done in Winter, though, thanks to a propane space heater. I also note that sometimes it's easier to work in difficult spaces when the cold has numbed your nerve endings ... though warming up afterward can be a painful experience.
Paul K
Well Known Member
OK, its finally too cold to fly or even think about it! On my way to work this morning, my car registered -22. by the time I gathered my phone and took a photo of the dash, I was on top of a hill and it had warmed up to -18f.
I am supposed to fly to upper Michigan this morning and while on ForeFlight, took a shot of the Pellston airport temp. Had planned to stop there for breakfast.
I am supposed to fly to upper Michigan this morning and while on ForeFlight, took a shot of the Pellston airport temp. Had planned to stop there for breakfast.
OK, its finally too cold to fly or even think about it! On my way to work this morning, my car registered -22. by the time I gathered my phone and took a photo of the dash, I was on top of a hill and it had warmed up to -18f.
I am supposed to fly to upper Michigan this morning and while on ForeFlight, took a shot of the Pellston airport temp. Had planned to stop there for breakfast.
Wow Paul! How do you people live there? Move to Garden State it's balmy -11 here
BruceEicher
Well Known Member
Sorry but...
...we went camping in our warm dry NW for President's Day Weekend. Low tempature was 44 high 65. Our ski resorts are hurting some though.
Two others on the field, Manzanita too.
...we went camping in our warm dry NW for President's Day Weekend. Low tempature was 44 high 65. Our ski resorts are hurting some though.
Two others on the field, Manzanita too.
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Plan ahead!
It was -8 here yesterday outside Chicago and 8 for a high. I planned ahead and bought a house with a walk out basement. I also have zoned heating so its a nice 67 down by the plane. Now its only work that has been getting in the way!
Stay warm out there.
It was -8 here yesterday outside Chicago and 8 for a high. I planned ahead and bought a house with a walk out basement. I also have zoned heating so its a nice 67 down by the plane. Now its only work that has been getting in the way!
Stay warm out there.
Nice J-3
Did you take that today? Haven't been out there in a few weeks. At our current temps I rather not hand prop and prefer the convenience of an electrical system.... .That one is done today
I thought you've noticed that Oliver. Couple times I am coming there and your Cubbie cries. Do you need help to dig her out? I can bring propane preheater...
Nice J-3
I thought you've noticed that Oliver. Couple times I am coming there and your Cubbie cries. Do you need help to dig her out? I can bring propane preheater...
I thought you've noticed that Oliver. Couple times I am coming there and your Cubbie cries. Do you need help to dig her out? I can bring propane preheater...
Thanks for the offer. I rather wait till it warms up and we are closer to freezing.
Just easier to fly the 8 as it's in a hanger set up with an engine heater (built out of an electric cabinet heater which works so much better then what you can buy). Switch it on the night before via wemo and my engine doesn't even know it's not in Florida when I arrive in the morning. Unfortunately I still do .... .
