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Help Diagnosing Failed PAPR Report on new Stratus ESG

lndwarrior

Well Known Member
I just installed the Stratus ESG with the Stratus 3i and an ACK A-30 encoder.

Also installed a new Rami AV-801 (A) gps antenna.

I also purchased the complete wiring harness so all was plug and play.

The complete system was purchased thru RST Engineering (who gave me a great deal).

I did fabricate new RG-400 cables for the transponder and gps antennas.

I ran new static line to the encoder.

I input all of the setup info including flight number, hex code, etc., in the ESG.

Everything powered up normally.

I flew in rule airspace for more than 30 minutes.

I did get the "built in test" failure icon on the ESG.

I never got a pressure altitude indication.

I've attached the error portion of my report. I'd appreciate any suggestions to help me solve this problem.

TIA,
Gary
 

Attachments

  • Stratus ESG PAPR 1.pdf
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Check your encoder wiring. The ESG should always indicate pressure altitude after the encoder "warms" up. Some encoders wont show altitude for a few minutes after powerup by design. If you take off with invalid encoder signals the ESG will show an altitude error that you have to hit the FUNC key to override.

Assume you set it up for a grey code input in the setup.
 
Pre-wired

The encoder and the esg came with a pre-wired harness. I'm hoping that is not part of the problem.

Yep, set up for grey code.

I may not have given the encoder enough time before taking off. I don't know enough to know if the errors in the report would indicate this.
 
NIC and NACp failures are related to GPS integrity. NIC issues are generally not a result of flying in poor coverage.

In addition, BARO ALT failing tells us that your barometric altitude is not being reported.
 
Some of these issues look to be from your GPS antenna not being "paired" properly with your encoder.

Double check the setup settings between the two to make sure that they are talking with same 'handshake' and at the same Baud rate, if they are using serial port wiring with D connectors, if like on Dynon Skyview equipped planes.
 
Say what?

Some of these issues look to be from your GPS antenna not being "paired" properly with your encoder.

Double check the setup settings between the two to make sure that they are talking with same 'handshake' and at the same Baud rate, if they are using serial port wiring with D connectors, if like on Dynon Skyview equipped planes.

Who are you?

GPS antenna has nothing to do with the encoder.

He's using a parallel altitude encoder (gray code) so there is no serial communication.

Does the pre-made harness supply power to the encoder?


Finn
 
Who are you?

GPS antenna has nothing to do with the encoder.

He's using a parallel altitude encoder (gray code) so there is no serial communication.

Does the pre-made harness supply power to the encoder?


Finn
Yes, the harness supplies power to the encoder.
 
OK. There is no point in flying until the 1090 ESG on the ground and in view of GPS satellites is:

1) Showing your coordinates (indicating that the GPS part is working, thus validating your GPS antenna cable).

2) Showing pressure altitude (validating encoder and wiring from encoder to the 1090 ESG). As mentioned earlier, it may take several minutes for the encoder to warm up and start supplying altitude information.

With that verified you can go fly and there you'll be validating your transponder antenna cable. Strictly speaking you shouldn't be turning it on in flight until it's been certified by an avionics shop/guy, as installed in the airplane, which would validate the above points.

Finn
 
Strictly speaking you shouldn't be turning it on in flight until it's been certified by an avionics shop/guy, as installed in the airplane, which would validate the above points.

Finn

Transponder test sets don't validate the GPS. There is no need for the biennial transponder cert to test ADS-B because you are monitored every time you fly. If you are not in compliance you will get a letter advising you to fix the problem. Adding ADS-B to an aircraft doesn't even require a separate transponder test unless it involves changing the transponder or adding ES capability to it.
 
Transponder test sets don't validate the GPS. There is no need for the biennial transponder cert to test ADS-B because you are monitored every time you fly. If you are not in compliance you will get a letter advising you to fix the problem. Adding ADS-B to an aircraft doesn't even require a separate transponder test unless it involves changing the transponder or adding ES capability to it.

True regarding GPS validation. The 1090 ESG does a good job of that itself. However from original post: "I just installed the Stratus ESG".

So he installed a new transponder. I wish there were a way around having a shop certify the installation, but from prior discussions here apparently there isn't.

Finn
 
Received this from a Stratus dealer on inquire for ESG ES unit and using an encoder. Might be worth checking if you are still looking for a problem with the altitude input .


"" The ESG will accept grey codes from your existing encoder. Please note, though, that Stratus’ prewired harness that comes with the unit is not wired to work with most existing encoders as it is wired for serial altitude not grey code. If using the prewired harness as is it would require installing a serial encoder. You can still use your existing encoder, but will need to modify the prebuilt harness to accommodate it. Thank you for the inquiry.""
 
Received this from a Stratus dealer on inquire for ESG ES unit and using an encoder. Might be worth checking if you are still looking for a problem with the altitude input .


"" The ESG will accept grey codes from your existing encoder. Please note, though, that Stratus’ prewired harness that comes with the unit is not wired to work with most existing encoders as it is wired for serial altitude not grey code. If using the prewired harness as is it would require installing a serial encoder. You can still use your existing encoder, but will need to modify the prebuilt harness to accommodate it. Thank you for the inquiry.""

BINGO! I believe this is exactly the problem. The harness I received with the 15 pin connector (to match the A-30 encoder) only had 3 wires to it. The parallel encoder uses 9 wires. The harness I beleive does have a parallel connector on it but it has a 9 pin connector which won't plug into the ACK A-30 encoder. I think I just need to re-wire the parallel wires to a 15 pin connector to match the encoder. I am verifying this with Jim at RST.

Thank you so much for taking the time to post this! You saved me a bunch of time and effort.
 
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A grey code connection to an encoder will require at least 8 wires and maybe couple more for power and ground.. So if you dont have a bundle of about 10 wires going to the encoder, that would show up as an altitude problem for sure.
 
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To be fair, the harness is from Appareo. And their documentation on the harness is non-existant.

I see.

Well, now you have two options:
1) Add the missing wires.
2) Get a grey code to serial converter (if such exists).

Unless... do you have any glass in your panel that can output serial altitude like a Dynon D-10A/100?

EDIT: Sorry. I completely missed the boat here!
Looking up the specs on the A-30 encoder I see that it does supply serial data!
So it would just be a wiring or protocol error.

Appears that protocol is simply selected with jumpers.
http://www.ackavionics.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/A-30-RS-232-data-formats.pdf
https://www.ackavionics.com/a-30-technical-information/

Also appears the warmup time can be as much as 10 minutes. Not clear if it doesn't start outputting data until fully warmed up and stabilized.

Finn
 
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The harness does appear to have a pre-wired parallel connector

I see.

Well, now you have two options:
1) Add the missing wires.
2) Get a grey code to serial converter (if such exists).

Unless... do you have any glass in your panel that can output serial altitude like a Dynon D-10A/100?

EDIT: Sorry. I completely missed the boat here!
Looking up the specs on the A-30 encoder I see that it does supply serial data!
So it would just be a wiring or protocol error.

Appears that protocol is simply selected with jumpers.
http://www.ackavionics.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/A-30-RS-232-data-formats.pdf
https://www.ackavionics.com/a-30-technical-information/

Also appears the warmup time can be as much as 10 minutes. Not clear if it doesn't start outputting data until fully warmed up and stabilized.

Finn

Edited
The harness does NOT have a pre-wired parallel connector to work with the ACK A-30 encoder.
 
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If you install a new encoder you must also have a repair station do a "altitude data correspondence test" to verify the new encoder matches your aircrafts altimeter.
 
The harness does appear to have a pre-wired parallel connector. The problem is that the connector is a 9 pin d-sub while the encoder has a 15 pin d-sub connection.

The Ack encoder did come with a 15 pin wire harness/connector. I believe I just need to cut the 9 pin connector off the Appareo harness and splice the wires to the Ack 15 pin harness. Verifying with Jim...

So you never had the encoder connected to the transponder? How did you expect the transponder to get altitude information?

For wiring purposes the simplest would be wiring it for serial, just three wires: ground, power and serial.

But wiring it for grey code (at least 8 or 9 plus ground and power) will be the simplest for setting up the communication "protocol": simply select parallel or Grey code.

Finn
 
Gray code connector

How can you properly connect from a nine pin connector to a 15 pin parallel encoder connector as the parallel encoder requires 10 wires for the gray code plus power and ground wires?
 
How can you properly connect from a nine pin connector to a 15 pin parallel encoder connector as the parallel encoder requires 10 wires for the gray code plus power and ground wires?

I guess if he stayed below 14,800' pressure altitude and used the connector shield as ground :)

Actually only need 9 gray code wires for up to 30,700'

But yes, unlikely his harness has enough wires for gray code.

Probably wired for serial.

Something really odd about this whole thing.

Finn
 
So you never had the encoder connected to the transponder? How did you expect the transponder to get altitude information?

For wiring purposes the simplest would be wiring it for serial, just three wires: ground, power and serial.

But wiring it for grey code (at least 8 or 9 plus ground and power) will be the simplest for setting up the communication "protocol": simply select parallel or Grey code.

Finn
The encoder was connected to the transponder via the 15 pin connector provided. The problem is the 15 pin connector is a 3 wire that is only designed for the Trans-cal serial encoder. I just had this verified with Appareo.

I also verified there is no 9 wire/parallel connector on the harness. Therefore the Appareo wiring harness will not work with the ACK encoder.

I've emailed Jim but his response was that he thought that the harness came with a parallel connector, which it doesn't.

I'm pretty frustrated. No idea how to proceed. What I don't understand is how can I be the first one this has happened to???

I'm kind of screwed at this point. Don't know whether to start tearing the wiring harness apart and re-wiring - or buy a Trans-cal serial encoder. Getting any kind of clear answer seems to be impossible.

Here is the Appareo email:
Hello Gary,

Thanks for contacting Appareo. This harness is ready for the Trans-cal RS232 encoders only and any other type of encoders will need to be customized by the installer which may not include the same type of male/female connectors.


Kind regards,

Stacey
Appareo Customer Support

 
Serial encoder

I have installed several esg to parallel encoders. If you don't have the proper pins, crimping tools,wire and experience, it would be much easier to swap to a serial encoder.
 
I have installed several esg to parallel encoders. If you don't have the proper pins, crimping tools,wire and experience, it would be much easier to swap to a serial encoder.

I think this what I am going to do. The problem is I don't anything about encoders. No idea which one to buy that would work with the Appareo harness. I asked Appareo this question and they wouldn't/ didn't give a specific model number. Just a generic answer which didn't help at all.

The one thing I've learned from this experience is that I don't know what questions to ask. I don't want to order some encoder only to find out the pin outs aren't correct for the Appareo harness and/or there is some other reason the encoder won't work with the ESG.
 
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This isn't rocket science. Call Stein and order the pins needed and his (I think it's $35) crimper for them, and get some #22 wire, aircraft quality, while you're at it. You should probably own this stuff, just on general principle.
Or I can loan you the crimper and some pins (not sure if I have enough) if you can get to LVK (Catch 22: we're inside the mode C veil so you need a working and tested mode C transponder to fly in.).
Or bite the bullet and join the 21st century with a serial encoder. You'll still need a crimper and pins, just not as many.
 
Hold on!

From what I saw the A-30 encoder HAS serial output.

I posted links to A-30 documentation.

Original poster: Please post all info on the encoder: model, version, etc. and I'm sure we can figure out the wiring, jumper settings and 1090 ESG protocol settings.

(Unless the A-30 needs strobe input, it really should just take three wires: serial, power and ground.)

Finn
 
The ACK A30 mod 8 and above encoder will support serial output on pin 7; then power and ground. So three wires makes sense. The desired serial output format is set by an internal jumper.
 
Sounds like you got an A-30 that DOES have capability for serial alt input into the ESG ( maybe three wires at the most ). I believe I would check All the pin outs on that Appero harness and make sure it has the correct pin in and out for the A-30 serial altitude feature considering the lack of info they originally fwded to you . Remember the ESG will probably need to to have the config set or maybe changed from an encoder grey scale to the serial format . That's done easily from the faceplate and set up F(x) on the ESG. Pull up the install manual from the internet for either the Stratus ESG experimental version or maybe you can find the Certificated version ( they are both the same! ) Look at the pin outs and the manual will also have the F(x) set up procedures. Worst case you may need a couple pins and some 22 gauge wire for one of the sub D connectors and a crimp tool like Bob T says . Like my dad used to say , " it will be good experience for you "
 
How does that work, again?

It doesn't. I read this in post #2 and went off the rails assuming his was a parallel (grey) only encoder:
"Assume you set it up for a grey code input in the setup."
Later, on a whim, I Googled the ACK A-30 and saw there are versions (mods) with serial outputs.

Later on we also learned that the harness he got came with both a DB9 and a DB15 connector; the DB15 connector apparently wired for serial output, but perhaps not correctly for the ACK A-30.

Still waiting for exact version or mod of his encoder so can look up wiring, jumper settings and 1090 ESG settings to make it simple for him, if needed.

Always nice to have all the data up front.

Finn
 
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It doesn't. I read this in post #2 and went off the rails assuming his was a parallel (grey) only encoder:
"Assume you set it up for a grey code input in the setup."
Later, on a whim, I Googled the ACK A-30 and saw there are versions (mods) with serial outputs.

Later on we also learned that the harness he got came with both a DB9 and a DB15 connector; the DB15 connector apparently wired for serial output, but perhaps not correctly for the ACK A-30.

Still waiting for exact version or mod of his encoder so can look up wiring, jumper settings and 1090 ESG settings to make it simple for him, if needed.

Always nice to have all the data up front.

Finn

Appareo already told him it was set up for a TransCal which has 2 plugs, the 15 pin for power and gray code (not used with the ESG) and the 9 pin for serial data.

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/smallestEncoder.php
 
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Appareo already told him it was set up for a TransCal which has 2 plugs, the 15 pin for power and gray code (not used with the ESG) and the 9 pin for serial data.

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/smallestEncoder.php

Why the heck should he go out and buy a $339 encoder if we can figure out how to change the harness and settings to work with the encoder has already has?????

Seriously, some of the replies here (including some of my own) makes me shake my head in disbelief.

Finn
 
Why the heck should he go out and buy a $339 encoder if we can figure out how to change the harness and settings to work with the encoder has already has?????

Seriously, some of the replies here (including some of my own) makes me shake my head in disbelief.

Finn

Just stating the facts, if he wants to use the gray code from a (non mod 9) ACK A-30 then rewire the harness for the encoder he wants to use.
 
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Just stating the facts, if he wants to use the gray code from a (non mod 9) ACK A-30 then rewire the harness for the encoder he wants to use.

I see. Actually it is good to know what the harness supplied by Appareo is set up for.

Also doesn't speak well for RST if they really supplied him with that harness and the ACK A-30 encoder, unless it was with the understanding he'd have to make it work.

Surprised he still hasn't answered with what version (mod) of the ACK A-30 he's got. If that was started in one of the earlier posts, I missed it. Because of my bad answers earlier, I'd really like to help him with info on rewiring the harness, A-30 jumper settings and 1090 ESG settings. But until we know what mod of the A-30 he has, can't do that.

Finn
 
I agree that this is very confusing and we don't have all the data needed.

The cover of the A-30 manual states Mod 9 for two rs-232 to 42K ft while page 4 shows rs-232 for mod 8 and above. We still don't know what mod he has.

There are two different Trans-cal encoders. One has a single 15 pin connector which can be wired for Gray or rs-232. The other has both a 15 pin and 9 pin where the power ground is required on the 15 pin and the rs-232 on the 9 pin if rs-232 is to be used.

The Stratus esg requires Trimble/Garmin or Shadin/RMS protocol if rs-232 is to be used. The A-30 requires no jumpers for Garmin protocol (mod 8 and above).

If he really has both a 15 pin and 9 pin connector for a Trans-cal encoder then he would simply have to remove pin 4 or 9 from the nine pin connector and put it into pin 7 of the 15 pin connector. Would only require a pin removal tool and easy to do.
 
Hold on!

From what I saw the A-30 encoder HAS serial output.

I posted links to A-30 documentation.

Original poster: Please post all info on the encoder: model, version, etc. and I'm sure we can figure out the wiring, jumper settings and 1090 ESG protocol settings.

(Unless the A-30 needs strobe input, it really should just take three wires: serial, power and ground.)

Finn

The encoder is the Ack A-30.5
 
I see. Actually it is good to know what the harness supplied by Appareo is set up for.

Also doesn't speak well for RST if they really supplied him with that harness and the ACK A-30 encoder, unless it was with the understanding he'd have to make it work.

Surprised he still hasn't answered with what version (mod) of the ACK A-30 he's got. If that was started in one of the earlier posts, I missed it. Because of my bad answers earlier, I'd really like to help him with info on rewiring the harness, A-30 jumper settings and 1090 ESG settings. But until we know what mod of the A-30 he has, can't do that.

Finn
The encoder is the A-30.5
 
Sounds like you got an A-30 that DOES have capability for serial alt input into the ESG ( maybe three wires at the most ). I believe I would check All the pin outs on that Appero harness and make sure it has the correct pin in and out for the A-30 serial altitude feature considering the lack of info they originally fwded to you . Remember the ESG will probably need to to have the config set or maybe changed from an encoder grey scale to the serial format . That's done easily from the faceplate and set up F(x) on the ESG. Pull up the install manual from the internet for either the Stratus ESG experimental version or maybe you can find the Certificated version ( they are both the same! ) Look at the pin outs and the manual will also have the F(x) set up procedures. Worst case you may need a couple pins and some 22 gauge wire for one of the sub D connectors and a crimp tool like Bob T says . Like my dad used to say , " it will be good experience for you "

One of the frustrating issues for me is the way Appareo labeled the wires. They are labelled with generic terms such as "ALT", not ALT-C1 or ALT A4 to be able to match the labels to the pin outs.

Yes, all the wires are color-coded but, again, Appareo doesn't give you a color-code to pin-out table. I've asked if they have one but haven't heard back yet.

Of course, there is no wiring diagram for the harness. Why would you need one if it's simply plug and play...

I think that in any case I'm going to have to pull the harness out of the plane, open up the 38 pin connector to the ESG and start tracing wires to verify what wire is actually going to the 3-wire, 15 pin encoder connector.

Stupid me - I thought the reason you bought all of the components from the same company at the same time, including the wire harness, was that it would all be just "plug and play...".
 
Since you have a mod 5 vs mod 8 ACT then it will not support the serial input to the ESG. If you have the old wiring harness from the mod 5 to the old xponder then you might be able to use it. If the old xponder connector is the same type as the ESG you could remove the pins from the old connector and insert them in the proper place in the ESG connector. Some old ACT harnesses has color coded wires which would make it easier. If the connectors pins are different you would need to cut the old wires and terminate them with the ESG style pins.

If you get a new Trans-cal. Make sure you get the one that is supported by your harness.
 
Since you have a mod 5 vs mod 8 ACT then it will not support the serial input to the ESG. If you have the old wiring harness from the mod 5 to the old xponder then you might be able to use it. If the old xponder connector is the same type as the ESG you could remove the pins from the old connector and insert them in the proper place in the ESG connector. Some old ACT harnesses has color coded wires which would make it easier. If the connectors pins are different you would need to cut the old wires and terminate them with the ESG style pins.

If you get a new Trans-cal. Make sure you get the one that is supported by your harness.

You are right. I just had it confirmed that the Ack A-30.5 is a parallel-only encoder. It does not support serial.

I am trying to get an answer from Appareo on which TRans-Cal encoder their harness is set up for. For some reason this does not seem to be an easy question for them.

I will gladly pay the extra $200 for a new encoder rather than trying to re-wire the harness for a parallel connection.

I appreciate all the help with this!
 
I thought I'd tag this to an existing thread.

I did an extended installation of a Stratus ESG. The unit was mounted before Oshkosh, but I needed a transponder check, so it sat partially installed until I completed the installation (installed a fuse) on the avionics shop's ramp. The old catch-22 (If installed, must be activated...If no current txp calibration, can't be used conundrum).

Anyway, I had the transponder check done on 11/9 (curiously, the day the PAPR system went down for 10 days) and have been flying with the ESG active ever since. Today, the PAPR system came back up and I requested the report. Everything checks out OK except the ground portion which failed. In speaking with Appareo, they indicated it (ground failure) is a known issue and the FAA isn't pursuing it, but if I wanted to avoid it, I could taxi <15 knots and/or wait 2 minutes to taxi after I turned the unit on, depending on which issue caused the ground fail...

I wasn't particularly impressed that the flight threshold is 15 knots (not user adjustable) or that a "fix" may be to wait 2 minutes idling before I begin to taxi. I told them "Engine starts, engine gauge scan complete, electronics on, brake release to taxi... 30 seconds. Seems dumb to need to sit stationary for another minute and a half."

Just something to be aware of.
 
I thought you had to be in rule airspace for a valid PAPR. I've installed several ESGs and find them to be very reliable.
 
I thought you had to be in rule airspace for a valid PAPR. I've installed several ESGs and find them to be very reliable.

The airborne portion of the flight I chose for the test went through a portion of Atlanta's airspace. Not so much the ground portion.

It is interesting and somewhat ominous to see my flight tracks clearly identified.
 
The airborne portion of the flight I chose for the test went through a portion of Atlanta's airspace. Not so much the ground portion.

It is interesting and somewhat ominous to see my flight tracks clearly identified.


Remember this Kyle! the S in ADSB stands for surveillance
 
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