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Thoughts about the back seat....

Chino Tom

Chino Tom

Well Known Member
Patron
Just a couple of thoughts in the side-by side vrs tandem debate (more like discussion). Having completed my RV-8A in late November because of a increasing amount of distractions, the 40 hour test period (YO-360-A1A) finally was completed in early March. Only now are my wife and I beginning her new life sitting behind me. We had many years in our trusty RV-6 sitting next to each other. We had several discussions during the 4 years spent building the -8A about whether she would like looking at the back of my head. One of the reasons I (we?) chose the -8 was the increase in shoulder room for the occupants. We are of approximately equal size and weight (ok, she is taller than me…..) and there were times in the six we (me) wished it was a little bigger. This past weekend we took our first real trip, loaded up with a weekends worth of luggage, and headed for Las Vegas (Henderson) from Chino. Although it is only an hour away, this was a test and She loved it. The ability to squirm around without interfering with the pilot (me) was a big plus for her. There was the occasional smack to the back of the head just to remind me she was still there (yes I do talk to her, but she does nap and now I can’t see if her eyes are open with the little mirrors I’ve installed). But she was very happy with the comfort (Classic Aero seats) and the room. Overall looks like we have another winner….. I really like this airplane. And without wanting to start or continue any past debates, after 800+ hours in the RV-6, I am very happy with my choice to build an -8A.
Although your mileage may vary………
 
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But................I make my wife watch for other airplanes and nearby terrain, while I take pics....

Sitting behind me just wouldn't work! :D

L.Adamson --- RV6A
 
Mine does

My wife flies from the back seat while I take photo's. She's got her own Avmap IV gps to keep an eye on me and terrain, and she can still smack me in the back of the head, which makes her feel good..
 
Another consideration....IFR safety pilot

L.Adamson said:
But................I make my wife watch for other airplanes and nearby terrain, while I take pics....

L.Adamson --- RV6A
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Paul "makes" me sit in the back of his -8 as safety pilot for his IFR currency. I really do NOT like that position for that job. The back of the -8 is great for napping or knitting or reading a book. It is no (long-term) place for a pilot or anyone interested in the flight itself. But, we've solved that problem. If you really need more shoulder room, take his-and-her planes! :D
 
Back Seat

I was single when I chose to build my RV-8. It was nearly finished when I met my wife, so she had no choice in the decision.

In the nearly 300 hours since first flight, she has flown with me more than half those hours. She did the upholstry and made a booster cushion for the back seat so that she could have better visibility.

We've flown coast to coast twice and regularly calls out traffic that I miss. She has her own gps mounted on the back of my seat to help with navigation and entertain herself.

She doesn't mind being a back seater and the extra room does come in handy. While I haven't been slapped on the back of the head yet, I can understand that possibility!

For you guys trying to decide between the 7 or the 8, discuss your desire with your wife and explain why the feeling of being in a fighter, sitting on the centerline is so important to you. I think most women think that side by side is important, but if they understand your desires, thay might see that flying back seat is really no big deal. A little give and take can go a long way on making this decision.

If your wife is on the fence, e-mail me for Becky's phone #; talk to her for a real world experience.
 
Louise Hose said:
The back of the -8 is great for napping or knitting or reading a book. It is no (long-term) place for a pilot or anyone interested in the flight itself.
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That's the bottom line in our case. We have some of the best scenery in the world around here. Places such as Lake Powell, Grand Canyon, Monument Valley, the Tetons, etc................and my wife likes to see it the same time I do.

But, on the other hand, I wouldn't mind an 8 or Rocket for some of that tandem seating "fighter" appeal.

L.Adamson --- RV6A
 
Louise Hose said:
Paul "makes" me sit in the back of his -8 as safety pilot for his IFR currency. I really do NOT like that position for that job. The back of the -8 is great for napping or knitting or reading a book. It is no (long-term) place for a pilot or anyone interested in the flight itself. But, we've solved that problem. If you really need more shoulder room, take his-and-her planes! :D
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Louise, Do you mean to tell me that you STILL haven't gotten a checkout in the "Front Office" of the -8?
Paul, you should be ashamed!
 
Mel said:
Louise, Do you mean to tell me that you STILL haven't gotten a checkout in the "Front Office" of the -8?
Paul, you should be ashamed!
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No kidding! We're planning on the "light twin" for many of the same reasons, but if I can convince Tanya (I usually do), she WILL get checked out in the front seat of the newest toy. Sssshhhh... We haven't actually had that conversation yet. We do best (I'm happiest) when we're perfect equals. I've already been transitioned to full time in the right seat of the -9A :). Ok, let the VAF marriage counseling begin.
 
Back Seat = Great Place for a Siesta

It's weird but both of my daughters fall asleep almost immediately when riding in the back of my RV8. You'd think they would be excited or terrified or something other than sleepy. At first I thought is was because of my super smooth flying skills but then I realized it was the comfy seat combined with me blabbing about the scenery ("Look there's Waller... and that must be Hempstead! ... Zzzzzzz").

HPIM5779_small.JPG
 
Tom,

I'll add a "ditto" to your comments. My wife did not enjoy the RV-6 as much as she does the Rocket. She much prefers the tandem seating over side-by-side, although my flying buddies don't. That's probably because I didn't install a stick back there.:D
 
Me too, Bob.......

.......however, I have the best of both worlds with a -4 in my hangar (that my buddy says "go fly") as well.....mostly for fun solo flights. When we go off someplace, it's nice having Jenny by my side:)

Regards,
 
Visibility from the 8

Those that think the vis from the back seat of the RV-8 is somehow less than that from the RV-6/7/9 haven't spent any real time in the 8. I remember my first flight in prototype RV-8 at Oshkosh back in 1997. I was really surprised how good the visibility was. My guess is that the total vis in the back of the 8 is close to the vis available from either seat in the side by side when the total field of vision is included. Of course strait forward vis is blocked by the front seater, but sitting on the centerline allows the rear seater to have an unobstructed view on both sides of the cockpit. Neither seat of the side by sides offer that. The pilot and passenger in the side by side blocks visibility for the other person to the left or right. The forward visibility for the pilot in the RV-8 is far better that the forward visibility of either seat in the side by sides.
 
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Don't blame Paul

Mel said:
Louise, Do you mean to tell me that you STILL haven't gotten a checkout in the "Front Office" of the -8?
Paul, you should be ashamed!
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The choice to not transition into the -8 yet is mine, not Paul's, for a variety of reasons. Among them, I'm perfectly happy with the -6 and shudder at the thought of forcing him into the backseat.

Seems to me the answer is to fly a -3 if you want the fighter pilot experience and for solo flights, a side-by-side for flying with a companion who wants to experience the flight, a tandem for a companion who wants to nap, read, or knit, and a -10 for the whole family! :)
 
Danny King said:
Those that think the vis from the back seat of the RV-8 is somehow less than that from the RV-6/7/9 haven't spent any real time in the 8. I remember my first flight in prototype RV-8 at Oshkosh back in 1997. I was really surprised how good the visibility was. My guess is that the total vis in the back of the 8 is close to the vis available from either seat in the side by side when the total field of vision is included.
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I would agree. Before deciding on the the -8, I rode in a Bill Marvels -8A and was duly impressed with the visability and room. Also I wanted to confirm that I could land the airplane easily from the the rear seat for the eventual day my sons might want to fly.

I too installed a GPS on the front seatback for the rear seater. My wife does call traffic also and she likes being able to see out of both sides of the airplane. For me the centerline experience is very cool and really, 90% of my flying is solo. The rear seat of the -8 for the other 10% is still very nice and at least as comfortable as the -6 was. For us (me) this is a win-win.
 
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Again, my only complaint about the back seat of the -8 is your legs are locked into position. You can't stretch them out, cross your ankles, etc. You're constantly straddling the pilot.

For folks with bad knees, moving your legs around is an absolute requirement.

Edit: my only other complaint about the backseat of the -8 is your neck always gets cold! :)
 
I beg to differ

Danny King said:
Those that think the vis from the back seat of the RV-8 is somehow less than that from the RV-6/7/9 haven't spent any real time in the 8.
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Danny, Danny,
I beg to differ and I'll bet that I have a lot more as GIB in an -8. I've sat back there from Houston to California and back...twice, as well as many other shorter x-c's. The viz sucks (for an RV) back there.

The visibility pales in comparison to the front seat of a -6....or even a Cessna when it comes safety pilot work or seeing where you are going. I'm pretty sure that the "square mile" total visibility is less in the tandem than my -6 but, for argument sake, I'll accept that the -8 may have slightly more. But, what you see in the -8 is what is on the sides, behind the wing or very high on the horizon if forward. What that means is that I am wrenching my neck constantly to see those wonderful sights (to the side) and squirming to peak around the Paul's head to see what's in front of me. I get a stiff neck and tight shoulders from a long ride in the back of the -8. :(

You guys that love your -8, that's great. If your wife loves to nest in the back of your -8, that's even more wonderful. But, as an RV pilot with probably scores of hours in the backseat of an -8 (and 100's in the front seat of a -6), you will never convince me that it is the preferred place for a passenger who wants to feel a part of the flight experience.
 
Louise Hose said:
Danny, Danny,
I beg to differ and I'll bet that I have a lot more as GIB in an -8. I've sat back there from Houston to California and back...twice, as well as many other shorter x-c's. The viz sucks (for an RV) back there.

The visibility pales in comparison to the front seat of a -6....or even a Cessna when it comes safety pilot work or seeing where you are going. I'm pretty sure that the "square mile" total visibility is less in the tandem than my -6 but, for argument sake, I'll accept that the -8 may have slightly more. But, what you see in the -8 is what is on the sides, behind the wing or very high on the horizon if forward. What that means is that I am wrenching my neck constantly to see those wonderful sights (to the side) and squirming to peak around the Paul's head to see what's in front of me. I get a stiff neck and tight shoulders from a long ride in the back of the -8. :(

You guys that love your -8, that's great. If your wife loves to nest in the back of your -8, that's even more wonderful. But, as an RV pilot with probably scores of hours in the backseat of an -8 (and 100's in the front seat of a -6), you will never convince me that it is the preferred place for a passenger who wants to feel a part of the flight experience.
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Louise wins! :) You can't argue with the real and exacting experience!

L.Adamson --- RV6A side by side, because we like it that way...
 
"You guys that love your -8, that's great. If your wife loves to nest in the back of your -8, that's even more wonderful. But, as an RV pilot with probably scores of hours in the backseat of an -8 (and 100's in the front seat of a -6), you will never convince me that it is the preferred place for a passenger who wants to feel a part of the flight experience"

That's fine. We'll just agree to disagreed. Your are a pilot, and of course you want to be in "The Pilot Seat", or at least have the same view. I do understand that. But every time I fly one of the side by side RV's, I keep banging my head on the canopy trying in vain to get the same view I'm so use to having in my 8. It's simply not there for the side by sides. Most of the people who occupy the rear seat of the Doll have not been pilots.

That is why Van offers a plane for each taste. They are all RV's and that's great!

Edit: L.Adamson --- RV6A side by side, because we like it that way... Too bad you don't fly an 8. Your view of all that beautiful country side where you fly could be so much better! He he!
 
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Well, as a pilot with 900 hours in the -8's front seat, and ZERO flight hours in the back, I really can't contribute much to this discusion, except an observation that Louise is happier in the back when we rememebr to add an additional cushion before the flight. Back before she and I met, I had no booster back there under the cushions, and passengers compained about the visibility, so I built a wedge. I sat back there and realized it was still kind of like being down in a well, and after Louise had a couple of flights, we tried adding another cushion (out of her plane), and she remarked that the Visibility was improved. We unfortunately, don't always remember to add the extra cushion (I just need to have DJ make one to match my interior, and leave it in).

I think rear seat height makes a big difference, and I need to pay more attention to it when fitting the rear 'pit to a passenger.

And yes, I am actually looking forward to the day when I can ride in back with Louise up front, swapping legs on long trips - she's just been to busy professionally to take the time for the conversion ... so far!

Paul
 
Problem solved!

Danny King said:
But every time I fly one of the side by side RV's, I keep banging my head on the canopy trying in vain to get the same view I'm so use to having in my 8. It's simply not there for the side by sides.
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Ah, come on, Danny. All you have to do is flip the -6/-7 over and fly inverted. The view will be just as good as in your -8...better than when the Doll is "upright"! Shouldn't be a problem for you. ;)

I don't doubt the joys of flying the front seat of the -8, and very much look forward to flying the -3 some day. I just think couples should be realistic about the back-seat experience....good and bad...when considering a tandem.
 
Flying upside down

Actually Louise, I enjoy flying the Doll upside down as she is equipped with full inverted fuel and oil systems. The front seat lap belt is a ratchet type, and you can really crank yourself down into the seat. Therefore, flying inverted is a snap. The inverted view of earth is so good it's scary!

I'll bet you will enjoy flying Valkyrie from the front, and the RV-3 will be a blast for both of you.

Tailwinds,

2h4axr4.jpg
 
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Pilots make better doors than windows.

Anyone ever thought of putting a bullet-cam on the dash up front and mounting a monitor on the back of the 8's pilots seat. The rear pilot could then "see" forward. - It might be tricky to set up - but it would be cool.

http://www.brickhousesecurity.com/100-s230chwx.html

Wait.. I'm building an 8... hmmmm....
 
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