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Titan Aircraft Engine Xpert

Titan-Xpert

Active Member
Hello everyone!

I just joined the website and I represent over 100 collective years of engine building, testing, and installation experience here at Titan Aircraft Engines in San Antonio. Kevin Eldredge the new GM here has asked me to get connected and spend a little time each day doing what I can to help this group with any issue or question about installing engines in your project.
If I don't have an answer I have a great team of experts I can goto throughout the Danbury Group of companies and get it for you.


www.titanengine.com:)
 
Welcome to VAF!

Welcome to VAF------whatever your name is.

Always good to have vendors directly involved....................

So, question please, who are you and what is your background???
 
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I suggested to Kevin recently to do with Titan something similar to what 'G3Xexpert' does here, where some of the Garmin tech guys chime in.

I'm guessing some of the Titan techs will be carrying on the tradition.

Vendor support in action!
 
And on behalf of our Team which Titan Aircraft Engines generously supports...
Welcome Titan team!
 
I've moved this thread to General Discussion for maximum exposure. This is another great addition of technical resources for our community....don't hesitate to roll up your sleeves and participate in our engine threads. :)
 
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Painting an engine

Hello Titan-expert,

Yes, a name would be helpful. I have a question, as well. I have an engine that I'm slowly rebuilding. I've sent most of the steel parts to ECI to get refurbished, yellow-tagged, etc, and will be using Titan cylinders. I'm at the point where I'd like to paint it before it goes together. Obviously, I'm going to mask off all the mating surfaces, but what else can you give me in the way of advice on painting it.

The Sac Sky Ranch book recommends baking for an hour at 200 degrees, what do you think of that? Other than high temp paint, any paint suggestions? Primer? I was going to powder coat the push rod tubes and gasket covers, any advice here?

Talk to me....

David
 
Your advertising indicates there's an LSA powerplant in the works. Any details?

thanks,

Tony

Tony,

All I can say right now is that we are working very hard on next/gen engines and configurations. Once our website launches and I get our ducks in a row, this will be the first place I send new developments. ;)
 
Welcome to VAF------whatever your name is.

Always good to have vendors directly involved....................

So, question please, who are you and what is your background???

My name is Bobby Looper I have been with ECI for 25 yrs.working with Airmotive Engneering,managing & operating our test cells.In the years I have been here I have run engine certification tests,break-in tests,oil tests, power tests, stress tests,abused and blown up hundreds of engines.I help develop, build, test and abuse the 340,370 & 409 family of engines.I also have been involved with all of the flight testing of these engines in our company RV-8.
I have been a aircraft mechinc since 1968 and have a SEL pilot rating.I will be the point man for Titan-Xpert, but we will have serveral other very qualified experts contrubiting as well.
 
Hey Bobby

Hi Bobby,

Great seeing you on here! It's great for us fellow builders to be able to reach out for advice on engines. It was a pleasure meeting you recently and working with you. I was wondering the best way to stay in touch. The information you gave me regarding breaking in my engine was very valuable to me. Thanks and have fun on the site!
 
Welcome again Bobby. I think we've had some previous conversations on the Titan injection.

Good to have you here.
Tom
 
Thanks.

Bobby, thanks for the reply, now I can give you a proper welcome.

welcome.gif


Your resume sounds pretty solid, you are going to be a great resource to the folks here at VAF.

Great to have you aboard.
 
Hello Titan-expert,

Yes, a name would be helpful. I have a question, as well. I have an engine that I'm slowly rebuilding. I've sent most of the steel parts to ECI to get refurbished, yellow-tagged, etc, and will be using Titan cylinders. I'm at the point where I'd like to paint it before it goes together. Obviously, I'm going to mask off all the mating surfaces, but what else can you give me in the way of advice on painting it.

The Sac Sky Ranch book recommends baking for an hour at 200 degrees, what do you think of that? Other than high temp paint, any paint suggestions? Primer? I was going to powder coat the push rod tubes and gasket covers, any advice here?

Talk to me....

David

You want to make sure that all of the painted surfaces are absolutely clean of oils and silicone this would also include finger prints, if you want the paint to bond well and last. You should not use a primer or filler; this could impede heat flow out of the engine. The exception would be wash primers or alodine.
As for baking the paint you can do it in an oven, or it can be accomplished the first couple of times you run the engine. I have done both I prefer baking on the first runs.
I generally like power coating but I have had some bad experiences with it on some engine parts like rocker boxes, because of the heat. It?s also usually put on fairly thick, so it can affect heat flow it also adds a little more weight than paint.
I would suggest darker colors because they usually show stains less when the engine gets to high time.

Bobby
 
Bobby

Bobby built the O-360 in my RV8. in 2011 it now has 300 hr on it and doing very well. Good guy too.
 
Bobby,
Can you give me some advice on compression and pistons? Am planning to go 10:1 and have two P-Mags. Any worries there other than not running really hard down low? I understand it's best not to lean too agressively too but since I'm stuck with a carb I wondered if that's still an issue.

Ceramic coated pistons, why and what are the drawbacks? Seems good to keep oil temps down but then maybe too much heat around the valves and CHT issues?

Thanks!
 
Bobby,
Can you give me some advice on compression and pistons? Am planning to go 10:1 and have two P-Mags. Any worries there other than not running really hard down low? I understand it's best not to lean too agressively too but since I'm stuck with a carb I wondered if that's still an issue.

Ceramic coated pistons, why and what are the drawbacks? Seems good to keep oil temps down but then maybe too much heat around the valves and CHT issues?

Thanks!

Several years ago we did a bunch of propeller testing on our RV-8 with Hartzell .Those guys gave us a real eye opening education about harmonic vibrations that tend to be aggravated by high compression .Certain prop, crank and high compression combinations create these vibrations (what a bell does when you hit it with a hammer) you usually cannot feel it in the seat of your pants. It causes fatigue in the prop and crank which causes them to get harder and harder until one or the other cracks and eventually fails.
Certified aircraft engine, propeller and compression combinations have a vibration survey done to identify the rpm?s that these harmonics are the most intense. This is why certain rpm?s are restricted for continuous operation and part of the reason why these engines can go to 2000hrs between overhauls without failures of the prop or crank.
At the end of our testing with Hartzell we were concerned about a 250 flight hour prop our airplane came with. We took it in to be inspected by a prop shop in San Antonio. They condemned it for hardness.
The lesson I learned from this is be weary of high compression engine propeller combinations that have not been surveyed. You truly will be an Experimental test pilot.
 
Several years ago we did a bunch of propeller testing on our RV-8 with Hartzell .Those guys gave us a real eye opening education about harmonic vibrations that tend to be aggravated by high compression .Certain prop, crank and high compression combinations create these vibrations (what a bell does when you hit it with a hammer) you usually cannot feel it in the seat of your pants. It causes fatigue in the prop and crank which causes them to get harder and harder until one or the other cracks and eventually fails.
Certified aircraft engine, propeller and compression combinations have a vibration survey done to identify the rpm?s that these harmonics are the most intense. This is why certain rpm?s are restricted for continuous operation and part of the reason why these engines can go to 2000hrs between overhauls without failures of the prop or crank.
At the end of our testing with Hartzell we were concerned about a 250 flight hour prop our airplane came with. We took it in to be inspected by a prop shop in San Antonio. They condemned it for hardness.
The lesson I learned from this is be weary of high compression engine propeller combinations that have not been surveyed. You truly will be an Experimental test pilot.

Will be running a composite prop. More concerned about detonation, manifold pressure limitations, proper leaning and the effect of elevation on all these. How much compression could become an issue with the metal props?
Thank you.
 
Will be running a composite prop. More concerned about detonation, manifold pressure limitations, proper leaning and the effect of elevation on all these. How much compression could become an issue with the metal props?
Thank you.

We were running 9:1 and backed off to 8:5 based on the Hartzell data. We also tested one of their composite props it had a similar harmonic issue just at a different frequency
 
I am seriously considering a IOX-370 with horizontal cold air induction for my -8, but have been warned that the ECI cold air induction may present an issue with exhaust pipe fit. Tentatively planning a Vetterman 4 pipe system. I've heard that the Superior sump works better with this setup. Any insight or advice?
 
I am seriously considering a IOX-370 with horizontal cold air induction for my -8, but have been warned that the ECI cold air induction may present an issue with exhaust pipe fit. Tentatively planning a Vetterman 4 pipe system. I've heard that the Superior sump works better with this setup. Any insight or advice?

Mark we have this setup on Jerry Morris' RV-8 on our team. It is tight, like all horizontal inductions. But it does fit. No worries. And yes you will want the 4 pipe. We also have the inverted system on this as well.
 
Bobby, glad to see you joined "The Force". :D

I am pretty sure I talked to you about my IOX-360. I was having a back firing issue running ROP. It went away when I switched to one mag. I put in all new injectors and 90% of the problem went away without any fuel pressure adjustment. Called it good enough since I run LOP most of the time.

The oil consumption (when the oil level it over 6qts) is high so I am adding an ASA separator next week. The previous owner ran his oil levels down to 4.5 qts and there was little blow by, but you didn't think that was a good idea so I am taking measures to get it back up to 6 or 7. Looking forward to a clean belly.

I have a question about oil pressure. Currently, it is running around 80 PSI in flight. If I backed it down to 65-70PSI would that help reduce blow by?

Quick starting, and a very smooth running engine that makes good power. Thanks! Runs good on 91 octane car gas also. ;)

Here is a link to the thread I started about the rough running problem.
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=107998

Again Welcome!
 
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Mark we have this setup on Jerry Morris' RV-8 on our team. It is tight, like all horizontal inductions. But it does fit. No worries. And yes you will want the 4 pipe. We also have the inverted system on this as well.

Mike, just curious, which injector was selected for his plane?
 
Vetterman 4 pipe fit

I am seriously considering a IOX-370 with horizontal cold air induction for my -8, but have been warned that the ECI cold air induction may present an issue with exhaust pipe fit. Tentatively planning a Vetterman 4 pipe system. I've heard that the Superior sump works better with this setup. Any insight or advice?

Mark, Here's a photo of my Vetterman 4 into 4 on the Titan Stroker 370 with their forward facing sump. This was during the install so there are a few items not secured, but you can see the basic installation. Like Kahuna said, it's tight but everything fit nicely.

13404979454_afaef69ce2_c.jpg




Here you see how I did the heat muff. Covers two pipes and provides great heat. It's from Robbins Wings. http://www.robbinswings.com/
I had a spacing issue with the regular heat muff because of my smoke system lines so Rick at Robbins Wings made me one to fit.

13404761023_f8638f134f_c.jpg
 
Mark, Here's a photo of my Vetterman 4 into 4 on the Titan Stroker 370 with their forward facing sump. This was during the install so there are a few items not secured, but you can see the basic installation. Like Kahuna said, it's tight but everything fit nicely.

13404979454_afaef69ce2_c.jpg




Here you see how I did the heat muff. Covers two pipes and provides great heat. It's from Robbins Wings. http://www.robbinswings.com/
I had a spacing issue with the regular heat muff because of my smoke system lines so Rick at Robbins Wings made me one to fit.

13404761023_f8638f134f_c.jpg

Very much appreciated! According to the ECI install doc, using the Precision injector requires a cowling mod. Did you have to make any mods for this?
 
Very much appreciated! According to the ECI install doc, using the Precision injector requires a cowling mod. Did you have to make any mods for this?

Yes I did. I made a small teardrop below the first ball joint on the #1 exhaust pipe. Also, the front of the injector where the snorkel bolts on is very close to the cowl and will rub if it doesn't have a small relief in it. I was able to do this on the inside of my cowl.
 
Well, I pulled the trigger and am going to San Antonio in June for the Builder Assist program on an IOX-370 with the 9:1 pistons and dual PMags. Can't wait! :D
 
Well, I pulled the trigger and am going to San Antonio in June for the Builder Assist program on an IOX-370 with the 9:1 pistons and dual PMags. Can't wait! :D

Excellent Choice Mark.. You'll be very pleased with the Titan experience. Glad we could help.
 
S.A.

My buddy (a retired Navy recip mechanic) and I are taking the wives with us and we plan to explore San Antonio in the evenings...eat a lot of Mexican food, etc. The build takes three days, so we'll have time to do some things.

I would spend at least one evening on the river walk just enjoying it. Don't expect the best mexican food there and all food is a bit pricey. Find a nice place to dine and dance or just sit by the river and enjoy. Our favorite Mexican food place was always Mi Tierra. We also lived several little dives but can't remember the names.
 
Bobby, glad to see you joined "The Force". :D

I am pretty sure I talked to you about my IOX-360. I was having a back firing issue running ROP. It went away when I switched to one mag. I put in all new injectors and 90% of the problem went away without any fuel pressure adjustment. Called it good enough since I run LOP most of the time.

The oil consumption (when the oil level it over 6qts) is high so I am adding an ASA separator next week. The previous owner ran his oil levels down to 4.5 qts and there was little blow by, but you didn't think that was a good idea so I am taking measures to get it back up to 6 or 7. Looking forward to a clean belly.

I have a question about oil pressure. Currently, it is running around 80 PSI in flight. If I backed it down to 65-70PSI would that help reduce blow by?

Quick starting, and a very smooth running engine that makes good power. Thanks! Runs good on 91 octane car gas also. ;)

Here is a link to the thread I started about the rough running problem.
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=107998

Again Welcome!

It is normal for Lycoming type of engines to have higher than usual oil consumption when the oil level is above 6qts. That?s why everybody runs 6qts as the normal full level. When the oil is above this level it tends to be pushed out the breather onto the belly. The minimum safe oil level is 2qts oil. A normal operating level would be 4 to 6 qts and will give consistent oil consumption.
Changing oil pressure would have no effect on oil consumption.

Bobby
 
I have a question about the Titan IOX370. I see on the printed literature that you show the 195HP version with a metal prop and the 205HP version with the composite prop.

Is there any reason the 205HP version shouldn't run with a Constant Speed metal prop? Just curious as to why the specific props were mentioned with each listing?
 
It is normal for Lycoming type of engines to have higher than usual oil consumption when the oil level is above 6qts. That?s why everybody runs 6qts as the normal full level. When the oil is above this level it tends to be pushed out the breather onto the belly. The minimum safe oil level is 2qts oil. A normal operating level would be 4 to 6 qts and will give consistent oil consumption.
Changing oil pressure would have no effect on oil consumption.

Bobby

Since this subject is open, does the crank entrain more of this extra oil resulting in lower HP and higher heat rejection to the oil? . . . . Is there some other reason for the increased oil consumption, like reduced crankcase volume and more air pumping action into the draft tube?

I just want to understand further implications of this phenomenon.
 
Since this subject is open, does the crank entrain more of this extra oil resulting in lower HP and higher heat rejection to the oil? . . . . Is there some other reason for the increased oil consumption, like reduced crankcase volume and more air pumping action into the draft tube?

I just want to understand further implications of this phenomenon.

Excellent question Bill. I too am curious about the phenomenon.

Here's a photo taken Tuesday at S&F. You're looking at the drain slots which return oil to the sump. The volume above them is the crankshaft space for cyls 3-4. You can see the dipstick. Note the accessory section also drains into the sump on the other side of the rear case web.

2q099ph.jpg
 
Since this subject is open, does the crank entrain more of this extra oil resulting in lower HP and higher heat rejection to the oil? . . . . Is there some other reason for the increased oil consumption, like reduced crankcase volume and more air pumping action into the draft tube?

I just want to understand further implications of this phenomenon.


On a Lycoming type engine when the oil is at six quarts the oil level in the sump is almost even with the gasket on the oil sump in level flight. There is a space above the oil in the sump. At the eight quart oil level the oil is much higher inside the accessory case and engine crankcase. Even with or slightly above the oil return lines from the cylinders. At this level, oil inside the bottom crankcase next the crankshaft .has no place to drain away from the crankshaft.
Windage from the crankshaft try?s to push the oil down in the sump and out of the holes in the back lower crankcase area this tends to push the oil higher in the accessory case. Where it is picked up and splashed around by the accessory gears, the gears help to bring a larger than normal volume of oil up higher in the accessory case to the breather area around the cam gear, it is then pushed out the breather by normal crankcase pressure fluctuations.
Reduced crankcase volume, frothing, foaming and atomization of the oil are also part of this increased oil consumption. Other side effects are a very small reduction in power and a slight increase of oil temperature
 
On a Lycoming type engine when the oil is at six quarts the oil level in the sump is almost even with the gasket on the oil sump in level flight.

I suspect you are only discussing the four cylinder engine here.

My 540 is very happy at the nine quart level.
 
I have a question about the Titan IOX370. I see on the printed literature that you show the 195HP version with a metal prop and the 205HP version with the composite prop.

Is there any reason the 205HP version shouldn't run with a Constant Speed metal prop? Just curious as to why the specific props were mentioned with each listing?

One of the differences between these two models is compression ratio. When we first developed the 370 engine, we were using a 9.0:1 compression ratio only. As part of the development of that engine we preformed multiple in flight propeller harmonic surveys in our company RV-8 with Hartzell in 2007. (I would refer you to an earlier post I made #23, about propeller testing and harmonic vibrations)During this testing we realized we had a significant harmonic node with some of the constant speed metal props, which would require some restrictions on continuous rpm operation.To address this problem we lowered the compression ratio on the constant speed metal prop versions only. (Hartzell?s recommendation) The fixed pitch and constant speed composite prop versions still have the original 9.0:1 compression ratio.
a469vm.jpg
 
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