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Critique This Panel for a 7A

jpharrell

Well Known Member
Well, it's time to get serious about my panel design. This is for a RV-7A tip-up. I need to determine what mods to make to the subpanel before riveting the forward fuselage structure. This is my latest layout. I plan to use a VPX so I don't need a bank of circuit breakers. My mission is for day VFR plus cross-country with IFR capability. Dual ADAHRS and backup batteries. Let me know what you think. Sorry for the simple black and white layout.

panel1.png
 
Looks nice. Do you need the trim indicators and the Hobbs meter? Can't you display that info on the skyview?
Nigel
Rv6
 
Couple of considerations

Looks pretty sound. Just a couple of thoughts

1) Don't think you need the trim indicators. Skyview displays that I believe.
2) Dump the map box. May not work there with structure behind.
3) Dump the Hobbs meter, the Skyview will cover your times
4) Suggest getting rid of the SL30 for a SL40. You probably don't need a backup NAV. Probably never use the one:) This will save some money
5) Move the Boost pump switch closer to throttle for emergencies.

Also just a bit of improvement on the flow of your switches. I'd put all the switches in a nice row along the bottom of the EFIS in level of importance. Master, avionics, Auto Pilot, Pitot heat, Position, Strobes, landing, Cabin, Dimmer.

If you remove the trim indicators you could put your mag switches above the start switch, keeping those away from the other switches.

Looks good!!! You might wait till after Oshkosh to finalize. Heard there's some neat stuff coming out at that time;) Could sway your decision.
 
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Switches

I find it convenient to have the mags and master switch along the top of the panel, that way I can see them from outside while standing on the ground.

I like to do a last minute double check before pushing on prop or going home after flight.

On my first aircraft (6A) switches were on bottom of panel and I had to get up on step or the wing to confirm they were Off.
 
I agree - ditch the trim indicators and Hobbs. I would also consider a AeroElectric Connection wiring scheme that would do away with the avionics master switch.

Erich
 
Ditto previous comments on the switches. Had to move mine around a bit after flying for a while. Put switches used infrequently or on the ground in a separate location from the ones you might use in flight. There are a number of examples of aircraft crashes as the result of flipping the wrong switch or pulling the wrong lever.

I don't see anything alarming about your layout, but flipping the right mag off instead of the boost pump might be a little bit annoying.

I kinda like the idea of the master and mags at the top of the panel... Might play with that, hadn't though of it before. But, I also find myself straining to double check master off / mags off before putting the airplane away.

my $0.02
 
Be careful with the positioning of the map box. It extends into the panel a long way forward. We had to modify ours to clear sub panel braces.
Phelps
 
I avoided putting the switches below the 10 inch dynon.. It's pretty tight if you do, and I thought what if I was pushing one of the buttons on the efis and it a bump and then accidently turned off a switch and didn't catch it..
 
AP Switch

Ditch the AP servo switch for a pullable breaker. If you put power to the servos after the dispays are running, sometimes the servos are not detected. Sometimes the displays will blink off for a second or two while this is happening--not a comfortable feeling if you are off the ground.
Lot of good advice from others concerning the switch locations. You might want to keep the avionics switch away from others also. My avionics is beside the fuel pump. Guess what happens.
 
I fixed the "I left the master on" issue. Two items, 1. I have an undervotalge light (backup alt). If the master is left on, this light will be on. 2. I always leave the strobes on. Master on, strobes are doing what they are supposed to.

Just a thought for those that already have their plane built. And yes, I am inthe habit of always checking the mag switches before I pull on the prop. Even if I know they are off, I still check. I just get a weird feeling if I did not check.
 
Really Nice Job!

John:
If you don't mind, I'm going to use your layout as a template when I do a full makeover of my 9A panel. Well thought out, with redundancy - a great setup for serious instrument work. Don't forget an alternate static source. You may also want to put in a couple of dummy switches if you want to add something later like defrost fans or cabin lights. Nice job.
Terry, CFI
RV9A N323TP
 
Good Inputs

Thanks to all for the inputs so far. It looks like the Dynon can be set up to display my aileron and elevator trim positions so I'll probably drop those Ray Allen LED displays. As for the map box, I was planning to modify the Vans kit by shortening it by about 3 inches to stay aft of the subpanel so I don't have to cut a hole through it. I'm surprised no one has commented on the unusual vertical orientation of the map box. Maybe someone else has done that but I haven't seen it before.

Also, I am still a little on the fence as far as going with one 10-inch and one 7-inch display versus two 10-inch displays and dropping the map box. I have been assuming that one 10-inch display is adequate to display everything I need as the pilot under normal circumstances. The 7-inch is primarily to provide a backup, allows my wife to help navigate on cross-country trips as a map display and occasionally will be used as a PFD when my wife takes the controls. I'd like to hear more from Skyview users if that is a reasonable assumption or if two 10-inch displays provide a significant benefit to the pilot.
 
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I'd like to hear more from Skyview users if that is a reasonable assumption or if two 10-inch displays provide a significant benefit to the pilot.


I'm not a Skyview user, but I don't think this is a vendor specific issue. The only real benefit to the pilot is the larger screen is easier to read from the left seat should the left EFIS fail.
 
I agree with much of what others have said specially regarding the switches.

I would group them in such way that will leave room for future additions/expansions as well give it a logical positioning. If you move ?Cabin and Dim? to a different location, you will have room for a future. Group the ones that will be used most of the time together (i.e. boost pump/landing light/strobes) often times used during landing and take off. These in addition to flap switch best positioned near the throttle. expansion/addition
 
Mag switches

Move the mag switches away from where you can knock them with your knee as you hop out of the cockpit, or put fences on them.

This I know from experience.

Otherwise nice panel

all the best
Rob
 
Ditch the AP servo switch for a pullable breaker
He mentions using the Vertical Power VP-X, so no need for a breaker. A simple AP disconnect switch is all that is needed. The AP needs to be on when the Skyview powers up, so you can enable the circuit for the AP when you turn on the avionics. I plan to put the Master, Avionics, AP and APRS power switches on the left side of the panel in a group above my key switch for the starter.

I'm doing a very similar panel (leaving room for a second Skyview display on the right). I will probably put an iPad on the right side.
 
Also just a bit of improvement on the flow of your switches. I'd put all the switches in a nice row along the bottom of the EFIS in level of importance. Master, avionics, Auto Pilot, Pitot heat, Position, Strobes, landing, Cabin, Dimmer.

I would avoid putting all the switches in one long row. If they are in groups of three, as you have them now, you can easily find the one you want without looking.
Also, I would consider moving the 12V outlet to the far side of the panel so the wire which goes to whatever appliance is plugged into it isn't in the way of the stick or your knees. You may even want it on a bulkhead next to the sidewall.
 
The Design

Since you asked, I used AutoCad for this design. It's just a 2D layout but it's easy to create and make changes.
 
I avoided putting the switches below the 10 inch dynon.. It's pretty tight if you do, and I thought what if I was pushing one of the buttons on the efis and it a bump and then accidently turned off a switch and didn't catch it..

Good point Ryan.

Here is a picture of my stock size panel. Note its for a slider.

img0629large.jpg


So far I have not turned any switches off in flight. Not seem in the picture is a key switch from the mags just to the left side.
 
Final Version

After a long time of tweaking my panel layout while working on other things like the canopy and firewall forward I am about ready to commit to this design and make metal chips. I thought I would post an updated layout as a follow-up to my original post to give those interested a look at how it has evolved and give the community one last shot at critiquing it. Speak now because this is going to be finalized very soon. I am posting it in two parts to help make it more legible.

panel-l.png


panel-r.png
 
Looks good! A couple of thoughts on the layout:

With the announcement of Garmin's new GTX200 I would be hard pressed to see why anyone would install an SL40, unless they already had it. At least the SL40 and GTX200 should be about the same size, so you may be able to make that call later.

Something I saw on a friend's almost-complete -7A recently: He mounted his starter pushbutton on the bottom left corner of the subpanel behind the main panel. It's out of sight, but trivial to find by feel just reaching in under the panel and sliding your hand forward along the window-sill extension behind the panel. His thought was to make it less likely to be hit by accident with grandkids in the airplane, and harder for someone to steal the airplane if they were so inclined...

Is that panel the stock height, or an increased height?
 
SL40

I already have the SL40 and it tightly integrates with the new Skyview 6.0 software pushing and pulling frequencies back and forth to the Skyview display. As far as I know that is not true with the GTR200 yet, although I am confident Dynon will work that out in the future.

This panel is stock height.
 
Why separate switches for the P-mags? Seems like more cost-complexity for not a lot of benefit. I used three position switches - down = off/grounded, middle = pmag internal power only, top = connected to ship's power.
 
Smart move ditching the map box. Mine was a pain to mod when fitting the panel to the plane.
 
I have two 10 inch Dynons and if I had to do it again I would put them together as close as possible and put my radios maybe above the Dynons if that were possible. I have an RV7A and have them in about the same position as you have them in your drawing drawing and I find the co-pilot side a little hard to read from the left seat. It would be better if they were closer, IMHO.

Dave
 
Garmin says the GTR200 is backwards compatible with the SL-40 so as far as we know, it will work just as well as a SL-40 with SkyView.
 
Consider mounting the cabin heat cable in a manner like the rest of the engine controls (meaning separate bracket from main panel). If you don't, you will be like me and that is I can remove the whole panel in just a few minutes EXCEPT FOR THE D****D HEATER CABLE which involves a painful disconnection at the firewall and total removal of the cable.

Unscrewing a bracket with a couple of nutplates would be preferable. :)
 
P-Mags

Brad,

As far as the P-Mag switches go two switches per P-Mag is what is recommended in the installation manual and the notes on page 25 specifically say not to switch 12/24 V supply OFF/ON except when testing the internal alternator. With one switch per P-Mag you have to turn 12V power off every time you do a Mag check. My P-Mag power switches will stay on unless I am doing an internal alternator check.
 
Frequency Identifiers

Dynon Support,

I have not fired up my Skyview/SL40 system yet but I understand Skyview 6.0 will push frequencies to the SL40. Will Skyview also push airport identifiers to the GTR200? Will the GTR200 automatically get the data on the closest airports so you can scroll through those on the GTR200 display?
 
Consider mounting the cabin heat cable in a manner like the rest of the engine controls (meaning separate bracket from main panel). If you don't, you will be like me and that is I can remove the whole panel in just a few minutes EXCEPT FOR THE D****D HEATER CABLE which involves a painful disconnection at the firewall and total removal of the cable.

Unscrewing a bracket with a couple of nutplates would be preferable. :)

Very good advice... especially if you might decide to use a cabin air mixer valve (instead of a simple on/off heat valve) where you can select hot or cool air blowing from the firewall underneath the panel, you'll then need two push-pull control cables, one for airflow, the other for heat/cool, and to have those side by side on a sub-panel bracket like your engine controls would be good, or just make your engine controls sub-panel a little wider to accomodate the cabin air/heat control cables as well.

I have the mixer type of cabin air/heat valve in my plane and on hot summer days, that extra volume of cool air blowing under the panel is very nice to have to augment the air blowing from the two eyeball vents on either side of the panel.
cat-med_chv-1.jpg
 
Dynon Support,

I have not fired up my Skyview/SL40 system yet but I understand Skyview 6.0 will push frequencies to the SL40. Will Skyview also push airport identifiers to the GTR200? Will the GTR200 automatically get the data on the closest airports so you can scroll through those on the GTR200 display?

SkyView does not currently push identifiers to any of the Garmin radios.
 
Danger Will Robinson!

I just looked at the panel again and noticed the Gemini PFD.

How deep is it? I ask because I have a 2-1/4" Trutrak Digiflight II in the same position and the back of it BARELY clears (like 1/4") the 2" rib of the tip up frame at about mid close position of the canopy. I was plain lucky. I missed that during planning.

I can't find depth dimensions for either my AP or your Gemini on the Trutrak site. Suggest a call to Lucas.
 
Did that

I posted a question on the Trutrak support forum and the answer I got was the Gemini PFD is only 0.75 thick. Should be no problem. I ordered the unit but am still waiting for it to be delivered.
 
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