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portable jump battery

R

rwayne

Well Known Member
So, do you think one of those small lithium batteries designed to jump a car (400 amp peak) would be able to jump start an RV10? They are light weight and fit in a glove box.
 
I'm going to try this:

THE NOCO COMPANY GB30 Genius Jumpstarter

Model # 16012692 | Mfg # GB30
$139.99

On sale at West Marine this weekend for $99.

Videos including starting a 6.0L V8 with no battery:
http://www.geniuschargers.com/boost/

They say it will do 10+ jumps so I'd think it could do a 540 once?
 
I'm impressed by these little batteries, but can't help thinking about them being a lot of energy to carry around in your pocket/glove box. I'd hate to be around if anything did go wrong. Maybe I worry too much:confused:
Dave Hastwell
120485
 
BTW, I can personally vouch for this little devices ability to turn over an O-360, 9:1 compression, composite c/s prop, on a completely DEAD battery. Just did it yesterday.
What would be a very cool test it to do it on my 540, 9:1, composite prop. If it can turn that, well, THEN we are talking really cool and handy powerful device.
Smokey lives in my airpark and we can try this here. We will try it and report back?
 
daveyator said:
I'm impressed by these little batteries, but can't help thinking about them being a lot of energy to carry around in your pocket/glove box. I'd hate to be around if anything did go wrong. Maybe I worry too much:confused:
Dave Hastwell
120485
Click to expand...

I agree. With all the fuss over the various chemistries of lithium in battery technology, it may beonly a matter of time before one or more of these things starts billowing smoke and breathing fire. It would be bad enough if the battery on your firewall ignited. WAY worse in your flight bag at altitude.
 
Batteries

Better get rid of your cell phone before it starts billowing smoke...you know, those dangerous lithium batteries...

Seriously, I have been using lithium type batteries pretty much since they made it to market and the only problem i have ever had was due to mechanically damaging a pack. Yes, it did swell up. No, it did not smoke or burst into flames.

Treated with the proper care and respect, I think the lithium batteries are great...

In fact, the only catastrophic failure that I have ever had was a lead acid battery that exploded and showered three people with battery acid...:eek:
 
Reference lith-ion batteries if they get hot enough they will spontaneous
Combust, think tesla/volt, I know we all hold these batteries to our ears
Every day just saying.
 
Kahuna said:
BTW, I can personally vouch for this little devices ability to turn over an O-360, 9:1 compression, composite c/s prop, on a completely DEAD battery. Just did it yesterday.
What would be a very cool test it to do it on my 540, 9:1, composite prop. If it can turn that, well, THEN we are talking really cool and handy powerful device.
Smokey lives in my airpark and we can try this here. We will try it and report back?
Click to expand...

Test revealed that the unit is quite capable of turning a 6cyl 9:1 with a composite prop with the ships battery disconnected. The only thing powering the plane was this device. Device was a Rockford RFDPPJS2976DLX. Amazing really when you see how small the thing is.
rfdppjs2976dlx-bag-kit-image_11611419.jpg
 
rocketman1988 said:
Better get rid of your cell phone before it starts billowing smoke...you know, those dangerous lithium batteries...
Click to expand...

It's a bit more complicated than that.

There are lots of different lithium chemistries. The ones in your cellphone are pretty benign as far as they go, relatively low (as far as Lithium batteries go) energy density.

The ones featured in this thread are very different. Significantly higher energy density.

Lithium batteries react violently with water. Puncturing the plastic airtight sheathing exposes them to air, and they start to get hot (and eventually catch fire or explode) due to contact with the moisture in the air.

Seriously, I have been using lithium type batteries pretty much since they made it to market and the only problem i have ever had was due to mechanically damaging a pack. Yes, it did swell up. No, it did not smoke or burst into flames.
Click to expand...

Hammer a nail through a broomstick so you can use it to puncture one of these batteries from a safe distance.

Given the energy density inherent in something the size of your hand that can turn over an engine, I'd expect it to react a lot more violently than the LiPo batteries used in RC aircraft.

I won't fly with them. It's not that I think they'll spontaneously combust (unless they're shorted out). It's more that there's a serious crashworthiness issue: If the battery is damaged in an accident, it could turn a survivable impact into a toxic inferno.

- mark
 
I won't fly with them. It's not that I think they'll spontaneously combust (unless they're shorted out). It's more that there's a serious crashworthiness issue: If the battery is damaged in an accident, it could turn a survivable impact into a toxic inferno.

- mark[/QUOTE]

And what about the 42 gallons of fuel and fumes you bought to the crash site ?
 
???

"...Lithium batteries react violently with water. Puncturing the plastic airtight sheathing exposes them to air, and they start to get hot (and eventually catch fire or explode) due to contact with the moisture in the air..."

Really? I use Lithium polymer batteries for almost all of my model planes. I have had only one 6 cell pack ever puff up, due to mechanical damage in a crash. It never burst into flames or exploded. In fact, the data sheet that came with the battery had disposal instructions for the battery. Mix a specified amount of table salt and tap water and put the battery in it for 24 hours. Then throw the inert battery in the trash. Right or wrong this is what I did and it never burst into flames or exploded, even in the water.

I agree that these batteries need to be treated with proper respect but saying you will never fly with them because they are dangerous is just what it is, your opinion...it is a risk/reward decision everyone has to make on their own...
 
Hangar fire

I like the little battery and I am tempted to get one.
However, as safe as you all think they are, every so often one goes up in flames.
Not long ago a friend's hangar burned out completely with everything in it including his airplanes and tools and machinery collected over a 30 year period.
Cause of fire.......
RC aircraft lithium battery plugged in for charging:(
 
rocketman1988 said:
I use Lithium polymer batteries for almost all of my model planes. I have had only one 6 cell pack ever puff up, due to mechanical damage in a crash. It never burst into flames or exploded.
Click to expand...

A friend lost their car in a fire started by one of these.

He'd been out flying a model helicopter in a park and crashed it. Scooped up the wreckage, loaded it into the back seat, and drove home.

On the way home, the helicopter's battery caught fire and ignited the back seat. Suspicion is that crash damage caused a pinhole piercing in the battery and let a bit of air in. Eventually the battery heated enough to go into thermal runaway.

- mark
 
Kahuna said:
Test revealed that the unit is quite capable of turning a 6cyl 9:1 with a composite prop with the ships battery disconnected. The only thing powering the plane was this device. Device was a Rockford RFDPPJS2976DLX. Amazing really when you see how small the thing is.
rfdppjs2976dlx-bag-kit-image_11611419.jpg
Click to expand...

Do you know what flavour of Lithium this is?

BTW. Currently on sale at Amazon for $65 incl shipping.

Bevan
 
Last edited:
Bevan said:
Do you know what flavour of Lithium this is?

BTW. Currently on sale at Amazon for $65 incl shipping.

Bevan
Click to expand...

The $65 item at Amazon is made in China. The one referenced in posts 7 and 13 is made in the USA. They are NOT the same.
 
Kahuna said:
Test revealed that the unit is quite capable of turning a 6cyl 9:1 with a composite prop with the ships battery disconnected. The only thing powering the plane was this device. Device was a Rockford RFDPPJS2976DLX. Amazing really when you see how small the thing is.
rfdppjs2976dlx-bag-kit-image_11611419.jpg
Click to expand...

Not surprising - the actual peak amps (cranking torque) for a 6 vs 4 cylinder is the same as the first cylinder (from rest) comes to it's first compression stroke. Thereafter, the 6 has some help from other cylinders on the expansion stroke that the 4 does not. The batteries are typically larger for the power needed not peak amps.

Real question - On one hand, I am a little surprised that the A Team is having a need for jump starting. Just a little, as you are considered well maintained, but (on the other hand) the operations pace may have yielded the need. So- I had previously concluded that no special connector was needed on my steed to facilitate jump starting. Should I revisit that decision based on the A Team's experiences? Your thoughts are appreciated if it is not too far off topic.
 
BillL said:
Real question - On one hand, I am a little surprised that the A Team is having a need for jump starting. Just a little, as you are considered well maintained, but (on the other hand) the operations pace may have yielded the need. So- I had previously concluded that no special connector was needed on my steed to facilitate jump starting. Should I revisit that decision based on the A Team's experiences? Your thoughts are appreciated if it is not too far off topic.
Click to expand...

Dead batteries are not a maintenance issue, its a pilot issue. With a large number of pilots, a large number of events, and a large number of movements in a day, you can image the opportunities for pilot error. When one plane is dead. We all jump in. And We Dont want to be "that guy", so we carry backup power.

I would not make a special plug. As long as you have a way to get to your battery, or master contactor, or starter contactor, you will be fine. If you dont have a way to those, then a remote jump jack might be useful. For most people, if you have to tear apart the plane to get to the battery once every other year for a jump, its no problem. For us, we need to get to it now!
 
rocketman1988 said:
Better get rid of your cell phone before it starts billowing smoke...you know, those dangerous lithium batteries...

Seriously, I have been using lithium type batteries pretty much since they made it to market and the only problem i have ever had was due to mechanically damaging a pack. Yes, it did swell up. No, it did not smoke or burst into flames.

Treated with the proper care and respect, I think the lithium batteries are great...

In fact, the only catastrophic failure that I have ever had was a lead acid battery that exploded and showered three people with battery acid...:eek:
Click to expand...

Have a read of the NTSB final report on the B787 battery fire in Boston here:

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=65012&d=1417522601

What makes this less-than-$100 battery pack so special that it's immune from the same failure modes? And if it's so great, why didn't Thales just use those? Seems they could've saved a bunch of money.
 
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