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RV X-C vs. commercial air

tmillican

Active Member
Seeking comments and input on a X-C planning issue.

I am going to Washington DC for a Tuesday, 29 June hearing.

The decision: to accept the reimbursed commercial air travel, or to fly the RV-8A.

Specifics:
departure 66R. destination ?? who knows. somewhere outside the iron curtain of the ADIZ, SFRA whatever they are calling it these days.
Distance: 2200 n.m. round trip. (13.3 hours at 165 knots)
Appointment: morning meeting Tuesday 29 June. Give testimony to some committee of the "Office of the National Coordinator for Health Information Technology" (which I had never heard of until about 10 days ago). Should be done by noon.
Schedule: Already blocked for Monday and Tuesday.

Please add/comment to my list of RV travel pros and cons:

Pro:
--FUN
--good experience (1st long XC in the RV)
--prep for OSH (next long XC in the RV)
--no airport lines, hassles, screening
--no drive to the airport (on the home end at least)
--could take second person for free (but can't take my wife AND daughter, so probably a theoretical benefit).

Con:
--more expensive
--longer travel time (but not by THAT much)
--perhaps MUCH longer travel time (Wx)
--DC airspace BS
--may have to do the ADIZ online training (or go last leg IFR)
--may need extra day off work for return flight Wednesday (days off in my profession equals days without pay i.e. even more expensive)

Thanks for any input or comments.

Obviously, I am looking for any excuse to fly my RV, whether it makes sense or not.

Troy Millican, MD
 
It's your thing!

Do what you want to do!;)

Hopefully they will reimburse you what the commercial arrangement would have cost.
Best wishes.
 
My Experience?

I can generally beat (or tie) the airlines door to door for trips of 1,000 miles or less, primarily because I don't have to go to the airport early, wait for luggage and rental car, etc.

But.....that's assuming that I don't have a line of significant weather to contend with that I am not going to penetrate (thunderstorms or ice). RV's are VERY capable, and you can use them to go a long ways around - but there are days that you simply are not going to go.

Our rule is that if we HAVE to be somewhere, we buy a ticket on Southwest (they go most of the places we do), and come the day of travel, we have a sure-fire way to get there if the weather doesn't look good. (Louise and I travel together, two instrument-rated pilots, and our rule is "whomever is the most scared, wins!) If the weather is good for RV'ing, we bank the ticket, and use it for the next time we need a contingency. If we haven't used that banked money by ski season, we use it for a trip with more luggage than we can carry in the RV.

I personally would have a hard time planning on making it from Texas to DC this time of year in an RV on a set schedule. I would have a contingency plan for sure - and maybe plan to go a day early to give yourself pad and a chance to visit the Udvar-Hazey....

When Louise was living in DC, I would fly in to Shannon, about an hour south, where she kept her plane, and outside of the ADIZ. Added an hour of ground driving, but made life very simple.

Having flown the trip several times, I'd recomend blocking a full day for each direction - heck, it'll take an hour just to get back outside the loop!

If you can plan flexibly, it is a great trip - but be realistic.

Paul
 
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Airlines stink!!...Take your plane at any and every opportunity. I used to have to travel a lot for work and I originally figured 500 nm or less was almost always better in GA than airlines. Well, mucho experience I raised that to 1000 and even more due to the ****-poor record of airlines in both delays and communication.
Two weeks back I ferried an RV9 from San Diego to Brookhaven NY. Due to the standard afternoon T-storms, the airline was late going to CA and I missed my connection. (no communication from airline--thank god for my netbook) Trip took 23 hours. Despite similar weather on return I was able to make scheduled stop in St.Louis the first night and finish flight the next day with 17 hrs on hobbs. Basically I kept schedule when airlines couldn't. GA is not restricted to one airport. If there's weather over your destination, you can land elsewhere. Also, after dropoff, I had to return home to Ft.Myers FL from NY on another airline. Multi hour delay for lack of a crew with almost no communication.
 
It's More Than the Price of a Ticket

On one of our trips last year to visit our daughter, we decided to go via the airlines to "save money". Round trip Detroit to Denver was about $250 per ticket. Oh yeah, they had just introduced the baggage fee - add $50. Daughter met us at DEN and drove us to her home at Ft. Carson (Colorado Springs). Our return was mid-week and she was working. Cab to Col Springs - $35 inc. tip. Shuttle to DEN -$100 inc tip. Another $50 bag fee. Get the car our of airport parking - $125. Total cost just under $900 (the RV would have been closer to $600). More importantly, the RV departure schedule is always better, and I've got a plane at my disposal during the week. Flexibility - priceless.
Terry, CFI
RV-9A N323TP
 
--may have to do the ADIZ online training (or go last leg IFR)


It's my understanding that even if you never plan on entering the adiz, you need to do the online course if you are going to be within 60 miles of it (60 miles from the center).

It's an easy and short course. When finished, print out the certificate and keep it with you.
 
Sounds like a fun trip. I flew into Leesburg VA last year and rented a car; the drive into downtown DC was much more hair-raising than the flight from Wisconsin. The SFRA stuff is not that hard if you're properly prepared.

I'd be a little concerned about meeting such a tight schedule, if its a "must be there" situation. Weather around the mountains just west of DC can get surprisingly nasty, and I'd guess that everyone who has flown a lot of cross country has had an unexpected mechanical problem at some point (I know I have). Having an extra day to work with on either side makes for a much more relaxed trip.
 
This past week end I had to travel to Denver from St. Louis and return. I was all set to fly the RV but ended up driving it. Here's why.

The RV trip would have cost about $425 in fuel and parking. Time factor about 5 hours with a fuel stop. Forecast indicated a head wind in both directions.

The airline would have cost $400 plus fees. Time factor at least 7 hours door to door if non stop, 10-12 if through Dallas or Chicago.

Driving cost $279. Time factor 13 hours.

The deciding factor was weather. The trip out was doable on Thursday but the return on Sunday was not. Denver was solid IFR and it extended east nearly to Kansas City. There was significant hail in the Denver area Friday and Saturday with TRW's to 50,000' and that was not a good plan for an airplane parked outside.

Were it not for the weather, the trip to DC would be fun and interesting. But the weather patterns right now are most unstable. If you have to be there, airline travel is your best bet. I hate even thinking about all the security BS one has to endure these days but sometimes it is the only way.
 
It's the weather

Everyone has hit the nailS on the headS. So many variables. If you have the time flexibility in business trips, take your plane. Otherwise, there's just a lot to consider. Before I retired, I had to take business trips from Topeka to Knoxville or Montgomery, Al several times a year. I did have the flexibilty in schedule which allowed me to fly my VariEze on these trips. A couple of times I did have to stay an extra day due to weather, but, since my fulltime job was also a flying job, my boss understood and was actually supportive. It was fun, but since I now have a 7, well, sometimes life just keeps getting better.
 
Well, since you ask for opinions, then here is mine:

If you have an IFR rating and the weather looks acceptable, then fly yourself using IFR (just make sure that you get all of your clearances and such).

While you may not save much time, however you will actually enjoy the flight which is hard to do these days when you fly commercial.
 
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Good comments from all of you

The saving factor on outbound weather is the fact that I have the weekend prior. If I keep an eye on it, I can leave earlier to make it work. The return trip may impact my patients if I postpone the return trip due to weather.

In all, right now the RV trip is an outside possibility.

As for the SFRA training, the comment I made about making the final leg IFR was based on this information:
"On August 12, 2008, the FAA published the final rule, ``Special Awareness Training for the Washington, DC Metropolitan Area'' (73 FR 46797). The rule requires ``special awareness'' training for any pilot who flies under visual flight rules (VFR) within a 60nauticalmile (NM) radius of the Washington, DC VHF omnidirectional range/distance measuring equipment (DCA VOR/DME)."

Troy
 
Airlines...

...are too crowded. I'd say the odds of a screaming 2 year old kicking the back of your seat the whole trip are significantly reduced in the RV. :D

Fly yourself if you can (and it's safe)!
 
cross country

I'll take the RV anytime up to 1500 miles. When you factor in the traffic getting to a comertial airport (2.5 hrs) parking (.5hr) putting up with surly ticket clerk,(.5 if you are lucky),surly TSA people,(1hr) sitting around the loading gate waiting to load(1hr min) sitting on the crowded aluminum tube next to a guy that forgot to take shower this week and wants to tell you about his exwife who ran off with his mistress..........Well you all get the point.

My oldest son and I are off to Kalispell this weekend, KGNB-KCOD-KGPI and back a few days later,,,On United the tickets would be $1300US plus whatever they could tack on just for fun.. with the 7, it's going to be about $ 360US in fuel plus breakfast in cody before sightseeing over Yellowstone....the waitress is goodlooking but it's the hashbrowns I'm after.
PS It's faster than United

Just to change the subject for a bit All you pilots out there, come to KGNB in the mountians of Colorado for the best pancake breakfast ever. help chapter 1267 send young people to the air academy this summer. Check out our website,@EAA chapter 1267. All this takes place at the newly renovated Granby airport northwest of Denver.
 
I fly the RV at any opportunity I get within the US whenever weather allows it. It is first class flying (you are sitting in the very front row after all) thus much cheaper then commercial first class flying. And I don't have to put up with the airliners as their service has become very much "Wal-Mart" type service.
 
Go for it...

Troy,

You might consider flying into Front Royal, VA. KFRR. 3000 ft paved airport about 50 miles west of the beltway. Self-Serve Gas is relatively inexpensive compared to surrounding airports ($4.40/gal). It's just outside of the Class B, but inside of the old 30 mile Mode C veil. You should take the online training, and ensure you're squaking 1200 prior to coming in that far. Other than that it's a piece of cake.

From there you can drive to the VRE in Manassas (train) or Metro in Vienna (subway/train) to get downtown. Will fill you in on more details if you contact me offline.

- John Munroe

RV-8 In progress
Finishing Empenage
 
Different experiences

I guess I have slightly different experiences with the airlines. Of course given the odds, I would much rather fly the RV, BUT...I find that, generally, if I have to travel over 500 miles to do an inspection, I can fly SouthWest cheaper and quicker. First, I qualify for senior rates, travel to the airport is about 1 hr., I park at the "Spot". It is cheaper than airport parking and they pick you up at your car and take you to the gate and vice versa. It also saves an overnight stay in many cases. And I don't have to be concerned about weather.
And since the customer is paying for travel expenses, I try to go the most reasonable way.

Oh Yeah, and bags fly free!
 
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If decide to RV it...

Paul mentioned Shannon airport near Fredericksburg. Nice airport and it's plenty out of the way of the DC mess.

You might also try Stafford which is brand new and northwest of Shannon. Only downside to Stafford is no FBO if you should need it. Upside to Stafford is some restored Stearmans based there :)

Manassas Regional is probably the nicest in the area, conveniently located (can take local roads instead of RT-95 and 1), and there's plenty in the area to see, do, or eat. You're also 10 minutes near two mall-zillas in the Tyson's Corner area for shopping and eating (Gallery and Tysons II).
 
Planes, Trains and Automobiles

I guess I have slightly different experiences with the airlines...

I agree with Mel. Even though I am beginning to detest the airport TSA Tango more and more, in general the airlines are reliable...and safe.

I was going to post a suggestion to travel by Amtrak, but the schedule was so ridiculous, it was laughable. Cost was reasonable, but to travel from Austin Texas to Washington DC would require leaving Austin on SATURDAY with train change in Chicago. Two nights on a train. No thank you! Wife and I rode a train from Birmingham to New York City one time. Nice trip but been there, done that! Reminded me of why I became a private pilot. Sorry to hijack the thread. Hope I haven't offended any train folks out there...this is supposed to be an RV forum. :rolleyes:
 
My take from the DC area and inside the SFRA:

Fly commercial into DCA and be done with it. You'll be a metro or taxi ride away from your meeting, take in some leisurely sightseeing downtown and dinner at a nice restaurant to get you past the dreaded late afternoon/evening thunderstorms we get here, then back to DCA for the trip home. Sleep on the flight home. I've flown in and out of all three of the major airports here, BWI, IAD, and DCA. DCA by far has been the easiest and quickest for security, baggage claim, and just plain old shortest time to get to the gate. You'll also get some great views of DC if you come in from the North (be sure to sit on the left side of the plane), and departing North (sit on the right side of the plane).

If you really want to fly up here in the RV you need to be prepared to possibly stay a little longer because of wx. Plus, you'll need to figure in hotel accommodations. Fly into KGAI where you are only a short taxi ride away from the metro that will take you quickly and reasonably priced anywhere downtown. Since you would be coming in from the SW, file IFR and pick a slow time at IAD so you can cut through the bravo airspace. Use the GPS 14 approach (LPV) so they don't send you past KFDK to EMI then back to KFDK to start the VOR approach.

While the rule to take the SFRA course is for VFR, I would STRONGLY recommend you take it even if you plan on flying IFR. I have witnessed way too many intercepts and silly pilot stuff over the past few years and it really takes something as minor as squawking an incorrect code to trigger a violation and definite suspension. The online course is informative and you will learn something.

Long trips such as this require lots of time flexibility this time of year and are definitely more expensive. The up side though is that you really can't beat the fun of doing it.
 
ADIZ, SFRA, whatever

PLEASE don't decide not to do it just because of a "little hassle" flying around DC. If they didn't want us flying there it would be prohibited airspace. The implementation of government rule will continue to expand unless we continue to fight back...just learn what you have to do, and go. I am a military aviator, but get no special treatment when I fly near there...we just do our homework and go. In fact there is a wonderful helicopter route through DC that goes by almost all the monuments, including fairly close to the white house (you can see it anyway). Be careful and judicious and go, you will not forget it!
 
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