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Tank Dimple Dies... yes or no?

danielhv

Well Known Member
Man, I'm just scratching the surface of these fuel tanks and they are already a pain. Seems like one thing I need comes right after another! So now I'm reading about fuel tank dimple dies. Are they needed? Or should I just use my regular die set?

I wish somebody would just come build my tanks for me for a 6-pack. :D
 
I wouldn't do them for 10 six packs...but you can borrow my tank die set if you want to.

jferraro16 at yahoo.com




Joe
 
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See if you can find someone to borrow the dies from. I'm about 90% done with one tank, and so far, I'm glad I used the tank dies. The rivets have sealant under each head, and they are almost perfectly flush.

My Results

So, for what it's worth, I'm glad I bought and used the tank dies.

One thing, when I was in the same boat, the conclusion I came to was that using normal dies will yield a perfectly acceptable tank. The tank dies will just make it a tad nicer. You can use the tank dies for dimpling the ribs and normal dies for skins on the other parts of the plane, The idea is that you'll get the two pieces to match up better. Since the deeper dimple will allow for the thickness of the skin material.
 
I wouldn't do them for 10 six packs...but you can borrow my tank die set if you want to.

jferraro16 at yahoo.com

214-673-3459


Joe

I'm taking you up on your offer!!! I'll call you this evening! :D

btw... How 'bout 10 six packs and a steak dinner? :wink:
 
Fuel tanks

Just a couple of hints on the Tanks. I was never able to use the tank jig as explained in the plans. I simply could not get the ribs to go in, so I gave up and clecoed all bottom of the ribs on the skin and then rolled the skin around on the top of the ribs clecoing the nose first all the way across the skin, skipping a hole and doing the same until i had half of the skin done. I then sat it in the jig and it was a perfect fit and fit the wing perfectly as well.
Mike H 9A/8A
 
There is no substitution for good tools!

Having said that, back in the day, tank dimple dies did not exist. We did just fine with the standard ones.
 
Tank dies or not?

"No person builds an airplane, the tools do. The person merely operates the tools." The better the tools, and skill of the operator, the better the finished product.

I used the tank dies, and have no leaks, just flush rivets.

Bevan
RV7A wiring
 
Tank Dies

I used the Avery tank dies and have no regrets. The difference between the tank dies and the Cleaveland dies I've used everywhere else is very subtle...gotta get a micrometer out to know the difference...but the dimple is a bit deeper.

Mike
 
Fuel Tank Dimple Dies

OK, I may have screwed up big time here but need to find out.

I opted to purchase the tank dimple dies from Avery. The part that I might have screwed up on is what parts you use them on. I used the tank ties on the skins, have not done any other part as of yet.

I was searching to see if the ribs also should be dimpled with the tank dies when I realized maybe I made a mistake.

So the questions are. Did I screw up by using the tank dies on the skins? Should I use the tank dies on the ribs? Will I be ok dimpleing both the skins and ribs with the tank dies?

Thanks much for any help on this.

FYI this is for tanks on an RV10

Brian
 
Fuel tanks

I wish somebody would just come build my tanks for me for a 6-pack. :D

Now if you would be willing to do my slider canopy I would gladly knock out your tanks! I thought the tanks were a pain until I started messing with the sliding frame...tanks were a walk in the park compared to that task!!!

Doug Lomheim
90116; FWF & (redoing slider with new sliding frame)
OK City, OK
 
means to an end

.....the difference between the tank dies and the Cleaveland dies I've used everywhere else is very subtle....Mike
Tank dimple dies are nice....but hardly essential. I've never used tank dimple dies myself. For proud sitting rivets, I use a high speed rivet shaving gun but concede not everybody has access to one.

Some vendors sell a rivet shaver bit that can be installed into a standard countersink cage:
http://www.averytools.com/pc-448-21-rivet-shaver-bit.aspx

My guess is if you are the type of builder who puts a premium on high quality surface flushness, over the course of the build you'll likely find more uses for a rivet shaver bit than the alternative of investing in tank dimple dies designed primarily for fuel tank rivets.

12503zk.jpg
 
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More tank die info

Seeing the thread I decided that I needed to add a little more information to our website for the tank dimple dies. The reason that we invented them is to solve the problem that many builders had of either rivets sticking up and having to be carefully sanded down, or the use of a rivet shaver.

The info that follows was added to:
http://www.cleavelandtoolstore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=DIE4263T



TECH INFO:
These dies make a dimple 0.007" deeper than our standard dimple dies to allow for the proseal under the rivet head. Historically builders have had to use a 'rivet shaver' bit which can easily get out of control. With these dies used on the TANK SKIN and on the TANK RIBS the rivets will set perfectly flush after riveting.
Also if you purchase the dies they can be used on the substructure of the entire airframe. If you have ever noticed that the skin and the substructure dimples don't nest perfectly we have created a special die for those discerning builders that is 0.011" deeper for the ribs and stiffeners, allowing the dimples to nest together rather than smashing together during the riveting process. If you purchase the tank dimple dies we recommend that since you have them, use them on the substructure of the rest of the airplane too!
 
....tank dimple dies.....we invented them ....
These dies make a dimple 0.007" deeper than our standard dimple dies to allow for the proseal under the rivet head.

Ahh, that solves one mystery.

The second mystery; how did you happen to decide on 0.007"?
 
Some vendors sell a rivet shaver bit that can be installed into a standard countersink cage:

I inherited some of those from a buddy, and tried it on a test piece of scrap aluminum with an air drill and a countersink cage...thing scared the bejeebers out of me, jumped all over and made a mess. I must have been doing something wrong, and yes I know it's probably best in one of those super-duper high-speed shaver guns, but no way would I put that sucker on my skin with just a drill and a c-sink cage! LOL!

Back in the drawer it went, never to see the light of day in my shop since... :)
 
007 Fans... not really :)

Ahh, that solves one mystery.

The second mystery; how did you happen to decide on 0.007"?

Like anything it took some testing and trial and error. We measured tons of rivets on different tanks with a digital height gauge and came up with some maximum and average numbers. We made several sets at different depths and set rivets in rows. .007" was the minimum depth that worked, and we felt that any deeper the rivets may not have the 'tightness' needed to be effective over time. We have some... lets call them accurate... customers that prompted us to make them. They did the initial testing and agreed that they worked well. The razor blade test across the top of the rivet gave the desired results of perfectly flat skins on both sides of the rivet, and touching the top of the rivet once set.


We have followed a similar process for other custom fasteners. We have them for substructure, oops, 120deg., and reduced head #8 screws. If there is any interest in these let me know and I will try and get them online, or send me an email to order.
 
I used the tank set on the rear wing spar of the RV-7 and it worked great. (the directions say to dimple then countersink slightly)
 
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