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Buying a tool set or piecing one together????

E

Epsound

Well Known Member
Hello all,

I've been looking at the list of tools recommended by the Vans site for RV7s. I already own about half of what is on the list. So, I was thinking that I would use the list to complete the missing pieces. Wouldn't this be cheaper? I would be very grateful for input as to whether this list is complete? I do want to get a belt sander, band saw, and drill press. However, what else would you any of you recommend (if at all) adding or subtracting from the list. I would like to ward off the infamous incremental trips to the hardware store for that 'one little thing'. I do love the hardware stores. But I also like to stay in the ?groove? when on a project. Below is the list at Vans.

Appreciate any suggestions.

Cheers


Recommended Tools for the RV-3,4,7,8,9,10

2X and 3X Rivet Gun , or 3X Rivet Gun Only **
E-Z Change Spring
Air Swivel Regulator
1" Dia. Flush Set **
3/32" Cupped Set 3.5"
1/8" Cupped Set 3.5" **
3/16" Cupped Set 3.5" (only for fabricating spar)
Double Offset Cupped Set
Mini Bucking Bar 1 lb. **
Anvil Bucking Bar 1.9 lb.
Footed Bucking Bar 2.2 lb.
Microstop Countersink Unit **
#40 Countersink - 3/32" Rivet **
#30 Countersink - 1/8" Rivet
#8 Countersink - #8 Screw
#10 Countersink - #10 Screw
Wiss Snips Left & Straight **
Wiss Snips Right & Straight **
Air Drill
#40 Drill Bits (for 3/32" rivets) **
#30 Drill Bits (for 1/8" rivets) **
#19 Drill Bit
#12 Drill Bit
12" #40 Drill Bit
12" #30 Drill Bit
Deburr Tool **
Cleco Pliers **
4 Cleco Clamps -1/2" Jaws
4 Cleco Clamps -1" Jaws
Pop Rivet Tool **
2 Screwdriver Bits - Size #2
Hand Squeezer / 3" Yoke
1/8" Universal Cupped Set
3/16" Universal Cupped Set
Flat Set 1/2" x 1/8" ** (**2 required)
Flat Set 3/8" x 1/8"
3/32" Rivet Dimple Die **
1/8" Rivet Dimple Die
#8 ScrewDimple Die
24" Stainless Rule
Unibit 1/4" - 3/4" by 1/16 ths
Permanent Markers ** ("Sharpie" Xtra or Ulta Fine Point)
3M Cut & Polishing Wheel 6"
Hearing Protector
Safety Glasses
325 Cleco Fastners - 3/32" ** (** 30 required)
175 Cleco Fastners - 1/8" ** (** 10 required)
Deburring Set - Large Holes
Edge Deburring Bit
Fluting Pliers
Rivet Cutter
Air Tool Oil
File Card / Brush
10" Vixen File
C-Frame Riveting Tool

Optional Tools

#6 Countersink - #6 Screw
Drill Stop Set of 4
Angle Drill Attachment
Cordless Screwdriver (for deburring)
Threaded Drill Set 6 pc.
Back Rivet Set **
Dimple Die Organizer
Removable Rivet Tape
Tape Dispenser
12 oz. Dead Blow Hammer
Recommended Tools for the RV-12
 
From an absolute perspective, the cheapest route is to obtain every single item individually from a variety of sources. That's a lot of work.

The common aircraft tool vendors will usually let you make substantial additions and subtractions from their prepackaged kits and still give you a good discount.

Some items on the list are overpriced from a tool store, such as:

sharpie markers (buy at office supply)
tape dispenser (office supply)
die organizer (cut up a plastic cutting board and drill holes in it)

I'd recommend the DRDT-2 dimpling tool instead of a C-frame tool (quiet, consistent, much less chance of making accidental holes).

Many people do not use any deburr tools at all, just a combination of files/sanders/scotchbrite wheels & pads.
 
Thanks Jonathon

I won't be ordering my tail kit for a while. In the mean time, I plan to put the tools together slowly. It should keep me occupied until I can order the first kit.

I was just looking at some 'Ryoby' tools i.e. 9" drill press, belt sander, and 9" band saw. Could get all three for around $350.

Thanks for the tip on the DRDT-2 dimpling tool.

Evans.
 
Epsound said:
I won't be ordering my tail kit for a while. In the mean time, I plan to put the tools together slowly. It should keep me occupied until I can order the first kit.

I was just looking at some 'Ryoby' tools i.e. 9" drill press, belt sander, and 9" band saw. Could get all three for around $350.

Thanks for the tip on the DRDT-2 dimpling tool.

Evans.
Click to expand...

I ended up buying a tool kit, however, before I bought the tool kit, I bought many tools from various sources.

If you check eBay regularly, you can find great deals (I bought pneumatic squeezers, yokes, seamer, drills, micro stop cages, nitrile gloves, and bulk drill bits from eBay, just to name a few). Be careful though. Check with several sources before buying stuff from eBay. Know what you are shopping for. eBay prices for some items are higher than some of the online retailers.

I also have the Ryobi press, belt sander, grinder, and band saw. They all work great for me. Get a metal blade for the saw.

I added the following to my kit (by buying from other sources)

2 pneumatic drills (for a total of 3). I have one with a #30 bit, one with #40 bit and one with a rivet removal tool (drill and tool came from eBay, just never took it off the drill). My "quick change" chuck is grabbing the other drill.

Pneumatic squeezer. (I have two, with two different yokes.)

Rivet gun (again, two, one with a cupped set and other other flat)

DRDT (love it)

Torque Wrench

Back Rivet plate

Skill ixo screwdriver for deburring (Carefully)

Cheap "hobby" drill press. I keep a light deburring wheel attached to it. It's so cheap, it drills oblong holes.

I at least doubled the amount of clecos. I have about 900 silver and 400 copper.

I also bought about 20 side grip clamps.
 
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Time is money

I wanted to piece the tools together, started the list.... got frustrated.

A few folks suggested calling avery. I did and got their kit, upgraded with x3 gun and pneumatic squeezer. Other than some extra 30 and 40 bits, and one more deburring tool there is nothing i needed until the canopy. I bought the glass drill bits and the glass edge tool. Everything else little that i needed, small files, odds and ends i got at the local hardware store. I hate cheap **** and have been 100% happy. Your time and effort deserve good tools. If you buy an avery set and treat them well you will get 75% of your investment back if you cash out. Thats a fair deal in my book.

Order quality and get building.
 
Epsound said:
325 Cleco Fastners - 3/32" ** (** 30 required)
175 Cleco Fastners - 1/8" ** (** 10 required)
Click to expand...
LOL!

Double or triple that quantity! You can never have too many clecos!

Also, you will continue to buy tools throughout the build. Heck, you will also find yourself buying new tools after it is flying.

One additional item that I found VERY helpful is this Tight Fit Drill Kit. There are better ones out there but this will get you through one or two airplanes.
 
HF can be your friend

I compared the tool lists from Avery, Cleavland, and Van's to get an idea of what were must haves and various prices. Then watched Ebay and got a good start. Garage sales for band saw, drill press and compressor ($230 total). Bought DRDT-2 head and buddy welded a frame to save ~$100 and shipping costs.

Harbor Freight was good for bench grinder, air die grinder, snips, misc files, and pneumatic parts. Don't go cheap (HF) on the torque wrench.

I found a Mill file from Sears makes nicer finish than the vixen or deburring tools. Bench sander from Lowes and I was through the 1st wing before needed more tools...37? tube flaring tool.

Ditto to add more clecos for the slow build.

Alan
N984AW Reserved
-9A Wings
 
Avery's tops!

I bought a "kit" from Avery minus the items I already had on hand, which was considerable as I was machinist in a previous life. But the savings was SUBSTANTIAL! One thing I picked up on a "reposessed" close-out and wouldn't dream of being without is a pneumatic rivet squeezer. Even at full price it's one of the most valued tools you will own. Not just for squeezing rivets but just dimpling the wing ribs after you have them assembled will knock the time down by 1/2 to 2/3. Just be sure you have the male die inserted into the hole before you hit the lever. (Ask me how I know. No, don't, it's embarrassing) Mel once told me that he completely dimpled his plane with a hand pop rivet tool. You'll know when you shake his hand! Now that's some perseverance! But it's all a part of the building process.
 
I pieced together my own tool kit. By looking thru the catalog lists of five or so suppliers, it became clear that prices on individual items vary a LOT. Since I was waiting for my tailkit, I had the time to check prices and "cherry pick". When I went back and looked at what I got compared to the pre-assembled toolkits, I saved about $250 ... which I actually spent on a Cleaveland Main Squeeze, one of the better decisions I made.
 
Take your time if the first kit is a ways off

If you are not ordering the tail kit soon, take your time and piece together your tools.

I prodominantly used e-bay. It was either 2 or 3 purchases. I spent well less than a new kit and wound up with WAY more useful parts and tools. For instance: Multiple air-drills, lifetime supply of bits, drill stops, stacks of bucking bars, every size and shape of rivet and dimple set, and a few tools (such as strap duplicators) that I have not used yet. The list is much longer. I think when it was all done, I ordered a backrivet set brand new from Avery. It also saved me enough money to justify the DRDT-2.

You can skip the band saw and put more money into a better drill press. Be concerned about the SLOWEST speed the press will turn. Get as far under 500 RPM (common on cheapo's) as you can find. In regard to a band saw, I really think it is an overrated luxury item. Anyone with reasonable hacksaw skill can make equivalent or better pieces by hand and there are not that many parts that require this type of fabrication. The belt sander will be handy, but again, the same work can be done via hacksaw, file and scotchbrite wheel in a reasonable amount of time. Think about your shop space, the addition of these two tools, and the floor space required for them.
 
Hawkeye7A said:
Mel once told me that he completely dimpled his plane with a hand pop rivet tool. You'll know when you shake his hand! Now that's some perseverance! But it's all a part of the building process.
Click to expand...
Actually I've built quite a few airplanes using this method. I've never used a "c-frame" or "DRDT". All my dimpling is done either with a pop rivet dimpler or vice-grip dimplers.
It's just how I learned.
 
Mel said:
Actually I've built quite a few airplanes using this method. I've never used a "c-frame" or "DRDT". All my dimpling is done either with a pop rivet dimpler or vice-grip dimplers.
It's just how I learned.
Click to expand...

So Mel, how many dimples do you get out of a nail? Using a plain steel 6d nail, I can only get maybe 2 without having to grind the jaw marks off the nail shank, otherwise the upset material interferes with removing the dies after the dimple is made. With grinding, maybe 3 to 5 total dimples.
 
Dimples....

I haven't begun my tail yet or ever worked with sheet metal before. So with a bit of humility I am going to ask......

What is dimpling guys?
 
Epsound said:
I haven't begun my tail yet or ever worked with sheet metal before. So with a bit of humility I am going to ask......

What is dimpling guys?
Click to expand...

The vast majority of an RV airframe is assembed with rivets that sit flush to the outer skin of the aircraft. The "manufactured head" of these rivets has the same shape as the head of a common flat head wood screw. So there must be a conical depression in the structure for this head to fit into.

Continuing the analogy, in thin sheetmetal structures, you do not countersink the material using a cutting tool, the way you would for a wood screw. Instead, you use a set of mating male and female dies to impress a conical "dimple" in the sheetmetal. The dimples in the top and bottom layers nest into each other to form a strong joint.
 
Dimpling

Thanks guys. All of this is great information. Is there somewhere I can see graphic examples of dimpling?

Wha is a DRDT?

And I know vans has clecos but is there a cheaper place to buy them?
 
Lots to learn

Epsound said:
Thanks guys. All of this is great information. Is there somewhere I can see graphic examples of dimpling?

Wha is a DRDT?

And I know vans has clecos but is there a cheaper place to buy them?
Click to expand...

Suggest you find a local builder to visit and learn the basics. Find a local EAA chapter and I'm sure someone there would be happy to help. Also you could check into attending a builders workshop. I attended Grov-air's weekend builders workshop and learned a lot. There's lots to learn....
Good luck
 
EAA videos

Epsound,
Are you a member of the EAA? if not , I highly recommend it.
Online videos they have are interesting to see the basics..


http://www.eaa.org/video/homebuilders.html

I live in an area where there aren't a whole lot of people building ( well.. truth be-told.. I will need to drive there, and / or haven't found them yet!)

anyway.. for a newbie like me to actually see this being done helps, until I get there..

A
 
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Epsound, I live in the springs too. Hey, it's my first post!

I'm a member of the Local EAA at 00V (Meadowlake) but I've not been very active there yet. I plan to start attending all the meetings now that things are working out. Lots of folks out there are building planes. I know 2 RV-10s that are going together and ton of other RVs being built and flown already.

I'm not building yet, still deciding on an airplane, but heavily leanding towards an RV-10. It'll be a few years of saving up money to get tools and stuff to actually start on a plane. But I plan on getting active in the EAA so I can learn stuff, help others out, and get involved with Young Eagles.

Shoot me a PM if you're not a member and I'll drag you out there this month for the meeting.
 
No need to sign in

pfactor said:
Epsound,
Are you a member of the EAA? if not , I highly recommend it.
Online videos they have are interesting to see the basics..


http://www.eaa.org/video/homebuilders.html (you will need to sign in , (for EAA members))

I live in an area where there aren't a whole lot of people building ( well.. truth be-told.. I will need to drive there, and / or haven't found them yet!)

anyway.. for a newbie like me to actually see this being done helps, until I get there..

A
Click to expand...

No need to sign in. NOT just for EAA members, just pick a video and hit play.
 
some areas to buy mini-kits or more than Van's recommends...

No matter how well you stock the shop now, you'll get to know your ups guy. :)

In addition to the obvious stuff:
  • a dozen black and gold clecos and short/long cleco clamps.
  • complete dimple die kit from aircraft spruce. Even all the sizes you don't think you'll need.
  • 200+ count drill bit kit with all size gauge and english bits. You'll end up replacing the 30's, 40's, 12's, 19's and 1/4" bits with some frequency, but it's invaluable to have all the other odd sizes handy too.
  • countersink set (with the big four at least: 12/19/30/40)
  • 2-3 countersink cages, with at least one skinny diameter.
  • an angle drill set with those "screw on" shorty and medium length bits for #30/40/12/19 and 1/4", plus a general purpose adapter for common bits. Cleaveland tool is a good source for this.
  • I learned that it was very useful to have multiple versions of the really common tools. I eventually accumulated 4 drills, 2 die grinders (angle and straight), and 2 squeezers. I love my "main squeeze" from Cleaveland, and I have another squeezer with minimal reach for small holes. My best and lightest drill (Sioux) is always at the ready with the #40.
 
I'm kind of in the same thought process as the OP. It'll be a few years before I start building but I'd like to start getting tools as I can now.

From reading this, it almost sounds as though those complete RV tool kits aren't really complete.

I guess it's just a good idea to compare those lists and come up with my own and then add other things. My problem is I don't know what half these tools are yet.
 
Jason,
Completeness is a relative term. I'd say the tool kits out there are very complete. What you learn is there's more than one tool that can perform a given task --some better than others. Some of the suggestions in this thread are nice to haves, not need to haves, but they do tend to make the jobs easier. I bought an RV tool kit from ATS and deleted a few things I didn't need (ie C-frame dimpler as I had a DRDT) and added a bunch more 3/32 clecos. I then added things as I went along--tungsten bar, pneumatic squeezer, additional counterstops, tap & die set and longer drill bits, to name a few. You tend to add things as you go along based upon research and your own experience.
 
Clecoe count on an RV8 prepunch fuselage

Just finished taking all the clecoes OUT of the of the RV8 fuselage. Near the end of the assembly, I was robbing one section to clecoe another...since I have borrowed and bought clecoes, I decided now would be a good time to weigh them now that they are out...

The totals are: 3/32 - 570 (wish I'd had about 650)
1/8 - 240 (wish I'd had about 275)

Let the Countersinking and deburring begin!!
 
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