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Mag Failure - Check Slick SB 1-15A

TimO

Well Known Member
I figured this is a good one to post here, because many of us ordered engines and built RV14's with engine from the same era.

I had a complete mag failure on my one and only mag in the RV-14. It was first caught on the ground, during run-up, and it wasn't vague at all as to there being a problem. Once I tore into it, what I found was pretty unexpected, yet based on the parts Slick was using at the time, I believe many of you will fun into the issue if you have affected mags, and it is absolutely a good one to take care of. I hadn't caught this Service Bulletin until now, so now that I'm aware I want to make sure you know about it too.

Here's a link to the SB:

https://www.championaerospace.com/assets/technical/SB1-15A_20181112.pdf

I did do a write-up with pics and a video on my site that can show you how bad the issue was after only 305 hours. If you're interested in that, go here:

https://www.myrv14.com/N14YT/maintenance/20190216_Mag_Failure/

Check your mag serial number and see if you are affected. From what I understand, the copper based part has been used for quite a number of years. The plastic molding/capturing of the part is a more recent issue. So older mags will probably have the copper part, but may not fail as readily. That said, switching to the new Monel part would make it more bulletproof.

One other side note, the 6-cyl slick mags have always been made from Monel, so those would be better already.
 
For the timeline on mine, I ordered the engine 8/27/2014, and received it somewhere right around 12/30/2014 or just after.
 
Great writeup!

Also, thanks for the pointer on the $25 buzz-box (http://www.magnetotimer.com/ ) I got one on order. I was planning on using my EE degree to make one, but for $25, it's a steal!

(and thankfully the mags on my newish IO-360 are not affected by the SB. yay!)
 
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internal timing

Yeah, I had the bad mags. I didn't know about the service bulletin either. for 2 years I had the hardest time starting the engine. It wasn't until I was at the Champion booth at SnF asking about their SlickStart magneto booster when the rep asked me the date of my mags. He then determined that I had the ones with the bad points.

He gave me a set of new points. Went home, installed them and my plane has started like a car ever since.
 
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Great write up

Just got my mags back after a 500 hour overhaul and will check that this SB was incorporated. Interestingly I had the referenced mag drop issue on my -7 a while back (397 hours on mags) which was resolved (I thought) by adjusting the timing on the mag. In going back and reading the old VAF thread the timing was off by three teeth which I think is similar to the 6 degrees you mentioned. looks like I may have had the same problem but it did not manifest itself again (over 100 hours).

For reference, my mags were new in 2008 and included the updated SB kit that replaced the points etc.

Your point about parts pricing is also on the mark as in my case the parts drove the overhaul price per mag (including taxes) to $700 each:eek:

Pricing caused me to wrestle with the EI decision again this year but decided to stick with the mags as for me they have basically worked for the last 10 years.
I have both of your articles bookmarked for reference:D

Figs
 
Thanks for the notice. I was unaware of this. Just checked my 0 time (new) mags and they both are 1410XXXX. Probably in the same production run as yours. I have never removed / replaced a mag so I guess it's time to learn so I can send these in for repair.
 
Removing the mags

Carlos
Having just gone though this the top clamp on the left (impulse) mag was a bugger to get off and put back on as it is right under the oil filter on my 0-360 and I could not reach it with my fingers. I ended up using a long finger clamp and a magnet tool to get it off and back on. There is not a lot of room between the mags and the firewall on the -7.

There is probably some trick to this or a special tool but check before you start or you will be cursing like I was:)
Figs
 
Well I'm glad people are finding the information useful. Hopefully it saves someone from a potentially bad situation. When I talked to them, basically it was this one gear part, and the points, that were his main concern. My points looked fine, but I ordered a new set anyway. My gears come UPS tomorrow finally. (Many places were back ordered) So this week I should be able to have my 2 mags (one that's never been used and I may sell some day) all back in working order. If I ever decide to make the jump to another EI on the right side, I'll have a brand new mag to sell.

The part that bothers me the most is the pricing of all of these parts. A mag in itself shouldn't cost more than a few hundred bucks. But once you own the shell and a good set of parts, you should really be able to overhaul one for much less than the ~$679 that the kit would cost, and that doesn't even replace everything in the mag. I wasn't nearly so disappointed in mags back in around 2001 when I was able to buy them for maybe $500-600, but they are pricing themselves out of realism.

If/when I do an E.I. system for the bottom plugs, it's going to be with one requirement: I want to do it with plug wires that are held on not just by friction fit pop on caps. I want something that would use a more aviation style plug that has a nut you can torque on. On my RV-10 after a few years, I started having a plug wire pop off on its own, and that was on top. I don't want to fly an aerobatic plane with plug wires on the bottom of the cylinder than could potentially just pop off due to G forces.

On a side note, I did post that pricing matrix. I can't remember as I write this if I added the slick cam grease on there or not. I ordered 3 packs of it. I'm wondering if there is any spec anyone knows about that would allow us to use some other grease that we can buy in tubes, rather than these tiny capsules. I'm not sure if its petroleum based, moly grease, or what, but I'm sure there would be something that could be safely used that we could stock our hangars with. I'll save these capsule for my travel kit in the airplanes.

To reply to pazmanyflyer's comment, I feel your pain. You now get the mag education. My suggestion is to spend a little money on help from the local A&P for the first one. The first couple times I tore into mags it was watching someone else do it, and if for nothing more than your own comfort, it would be worth spending an hour or two of labor to watch it done. I was warned to make sure to remove my pins from the mags before turning the engine, and some things like those lessons stuck with me. Without having someone say that up front, I don't know that it would have stuck. They're not as horribly complex or scary as it may seem, but still it's something new, and although we are allowed to work on these things ourselves, it's best to do "first time" things under a little guidance from someone who knows better.

Also, everyone should make sure they have the T-118 and T-150 tools on hand. You want to be prepared.

If anyone has a .pdf copy of Champion Slick Service Manual L-1363G (the current rev), I'd love to add it to that write-up so that I'm not behind on it. I only have "F".
 
I don't want to fly an aerobatic plane with plug wires on the bottom of the cylinder than could potentially just pop off due to G forces.

I believe all Yak and Sukhoi drivers switched to automotive plugs and harnesses long time ago (no first hand knowledge though). I have not heard of any problems with the auto harnesses, and they are very much aerobatic airplanes!
 
Tim,

Thanks for the write up on your website about this SB. This covers a huge number of mags and I suspect a LOT of people here are effected by it. I contacted Aircraft Spruce to ask about getting the warranty claimed through them and they wouldn't work me because I didn't purchase the mag through them. How were able to handle this with them?
 
Man that's a good question (on working the return through Aircraft Spruce). The guy I talked to at Slick just told me to buy the part at any of their distributors (if I didn't want them to do the install) and the distributor would work out the return and credit. I won't be able to start this process until I swap gears (mine arrive today but not sure when I'll do the job), so I guess I'll find out. If they don't handle the return, I guess I'll talk to Champion/Unison/Slick directly and figure it out. At least it's only a couple hundred bucks, but one way or the other I'll get it worked out.
 
I did find the cam grease in a more long-term economical package. I found a website selling the Slick Unison Cam grease, and they had the MSDS posted. That MSDS said that it was Magnalube-G. You can buy a tube of that many places, including Amazon, for about $11 for a tube. Far better than the tiny blister pack price of about $2.50-$3.00 for a tiny dab of it.
I got my tube today and it appears to be the same as what I bought in the blister pack.
 
Tim,

Thanks for the write up on your website about this SB. This covers a huge number of mags and I suspect a LOT of people here are effected by it. I contacted Aircraft Spruce to ask about getting the warranty claimed through them and they wouldn't work me because I didn't purchase the mag through them. How were able to handle this with them?

Similar experience here. 3 affected mags (one is a bench spare), purchased at different places. One wanted to charge me the full price of the distributor gear ($100) plus $50 for their labor, and wouldn't give me back the $100 even once they got the credit from Champion. I know where not to go from now on.

The other mag I bought outright from Aircraft Magneto Service. They wouldn't work with me because they aren't a distributor, but told me to call their distributor Omaha Aircraft Supply. But they in turn weren't set up to even sell to an individual, and it didn't sound like there'd be any way to get an eventual refund for the returned defective gear either.

So in desperation I reached out to Joe Logie at Champion directly. He said they can't work directly with me either, but if I wanted to take my plane out of service for weeks I could send all the mags directly in to them.

Champion, if you're listening, your policies and distributor deals that prohibit dealing directly with the end customer absolutely STINK! (And so do the distributors who can't figure out how to forward a refund to the customer.) I guess you want us to just keep flying these dangerous mags?
 
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Today I got my RMA from Aircraft Spruce. I'm not sure if I was lucky, or just worded things just right.

They asked me "Did you buy this from us". Of course, the magneto came with the engine from Lycoming, but, I did indeed buy 2 of the mag gears from Spruce. So I said, Yes, I bought 2 of them on invoice number XXXXX. They checked, and saw that I had, and then promptly issued me an RMA and she was very friendly. I had gone into the phone call wondering if I was going to have to ask for a manager, but left with a normal good experience at Aircraft Spruce. At this point, I haven't yet of course got my refund, but my gears are headed to California for return.

I wanted to add another comment too. I will try to update the site with the write-up soon, but I bought 2 slick gears and one from Kelly that I figured cost less and would make a good spare. In retrospect, while it did save a little bit of money, it didn't save as much as I though, and I probably wouldn't go that route again. The reason is, the slick gear comes with the carbon brush, whereas the Kelly one does not. Once you add that cost, you're most of the way there to the price of the slick.

The slick gear and the kelly both did have the monel wiper on it rather than copper, so that will be a lasting improvement either way.

Hopefully all of the other affected people have a good repair/return experience. I won't bother posting more on mine unless something bad happens with the RMA.
 
Thanks

Thanks for this post.
My left mag (right ign is also light speed like yours ) is affected.
Has 160 hours.
Ordered the gear kit and gasket from Spruce today and have spoken to a local mag chap and will have him change over on the 200 hour annual.
Your information has been a great help.
 
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