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Is Vans going to put out a high wing?

AL_O_Dine

Member
Is Vans ever going to put out a high wing kit?

Rumor has it that attempts were made, but gravity kept causing the wings to wind up on the bottom, so he decided not to fight it.
 
I really don't get

why folks keep wondering if Van's will ever put out a high wing kit.

It's not their forte. There are other manufacturers that do. People, go look there! Lot's of em!

Does Ferrari need to come out with a mini van? Does Jack Daniels have to come out with a beer? Does Vegas need to cater to children? Oh, wait, they tried that. Didn't work.

What happens at Van's stays at Van's baby! Let it be! :D
 
Does Porsche need to offer an SUV? Oh, wait.....nevermind :D.

:mad::mad::mad:

Ruined the marque....


[ed. Couldn't agree more! But, sometimes, a company offering a product that at first look might not seem like a good idea turns out to be a home run. The following 'Porsche SUV' example is somewhat parallel to the hypothetical 'Van's high wing'.

My hopefully humorous point was that once they started offering the Cayenne (SUV), it became 31%-57% of their total N.American sales over 12 years. Wondering out loud if Van's high wing offering would do same.... Hard to argue with a 31-57% increase in sales... The Porsche 'SUV' was nearly 45% of their sales in 2011 - almost 13,000 sold in that one year (in N.America). Yep.

source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche#North_American_sales

jrbexe.jpg


V/r, dr]




***Edit*** Yeah yeah, I know. Sales went up. But with that vehicle came the end of the racing program, the end of an era where every Porsche released was track worthy. Even the 996 (that era's 911 version) was released with a caveat that it wasn't ok with extended cornering loads. In other words, it wasn't a sportscar (they since fixed that after a meltdown from the masses). Dr Ferdinand did a few dozen backflips in his grave that year. For me, the new company direction took away the passion that used to be Porsche and created another volkswagon in it's place. The passion was replaced by sensibility. I'll admit, there is still one in my garage...but only because it's a highly massaged track beast that fits me and my driving style too well to let go of. It took me a decade to get it handling exactly how I want it...so it's hard to let go of. I won't buy another Porsche though...when one day my ambition exceeds my ability and I ball it up in turn 12 at Road Atlanta (I just know that's the one that will get me one day). The company just doesn't think like me anymore. Perhaps the soccer moms they are marketing SUV's to will end up being as loyal as the racers they replaced. A dozen of my friends who all used to race with me in PCA are now racing Mazda's or BMW and none of them would consider coming back. My problem of course is that I'm one of the group that the new Porsche turned their back on....it's entirely possible that the new group is just a better business model than we were but that doesn't mean I have to like them. I still give the Porsche mini van's a look of disdain and don't even get me started on the station wagon.
 
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This must be a record for a thread losing its way. At least we know who caused it. :)
 
If they did...

If Van offered a high wing kit, they would corner the kit plane market. They have the kit plane process figured out. I would like to have a slow flying high wing bush plane with van's design.
cj
 
the chewing-gum discussion

...yep, never loses it's flavour, goes on, and on, and on, but results in nothin' but a sore jaw! :D

so, kitting up a Glastar sportsman type bush plane would require the -9 or -14 wing! ......and a super cool retro split door like on a cub, so you could fly with yer arm hangin out...and get at the stuff in the back. (no CAR doors please!)
I think the CH750/850 answers the question of what a bushplane looks like with a nosewheel, so forget that option!:eek:
 
If Van offered a high wing kit, they would corner the kit plane market. They have the kit plane process figured out. I would like to have a slow flying high wing bush plane with van's design.

It's called the Murphy Rebel.
 
I would be a customer for sure!

I don't see how the 12 fits into vans style any better than a high wing plane would, but that seems to have been accepted by the masses.
 
high wing for me

I am all for a fast high wing. So that all us old farts can climb in easier. Not to mention the flyers that are somewhat handicap. I read stories were old pilots had to sell their RV 3 because they just could not climb in anymore; this is sad.
 
I am all for a fast high wing. So that all us old farts can climb in easier. Not to mention the flyers that are somewhat handicap. I read stories were old pilots had to sell their RV 3 because they just could not climb in anymore; this is sad.

Try yoga.

Dave
RV-3B, now on the wings
 
OK, time for a high wing guy to chime in... As a Glasair Sportsman builder I can say with certainty that there is no other high wing I would want to own. At least no other that's currently on the market. If Van were to build a high wing it would need to have a significant advantage in some area of the performance envelope in order to capture a reasonable market share. Glasair has Vans beat on time to build, thanks to the Two Weeks to Taxi program (if you're that well heeled, I'm not). The Sportsman has fantastic utility, offering easy conversion of landing gear configuration, wings that fold easily, as well as great useful load and pretty reasonable speed, coupled with very adequate range/endurance. Plus it has that little advantage of having cargo SPACE, not to mention ease of access.

Where Glasair doesn't shine is in the quality of the build manuals and in some cases the quality of the fit/finish on kit materials. And price. These are the weaknesses which I could see Van exploiting to fulfill a market niche.

In the mean time, I'll keep plugging away at our Sportsman project. 90% done, 90% to go!
 
why folks keep wondering if Van's will ever put out a high wing kit.

It's not their forte. There are other manufacturers that do. People, go look there! Lot's of em!

Does Ferrari need to come out with a mini van? Does Jack Daniels have to come out with a beer? Does Vegas need to cater to children? Oh, wait, they tried that. Didn't work.

What happens at Van's stays at Van's baby! Let it be! :D

With that logic, Johnson & Johnson should just sell baby shampoo and nothing else. 3M should just sell post it notes and not expand into anything else. US automakers should just go back to selling nothing but black cars. And Airventure should just be a handful of guys with Pietenpols and nothing else.

Just keep the status quo and never change. Sounds like the old USSR and East Germany. You can buy any car you want, as long as it's a Trabant.
 
RV Jet

Wait, SONEX is making a jet and nothing of the sort is coming from the Vans Skunkworks? Instead of talking about Porsches lets talk about jets! I'm sure if Sonex can do it Van can do it better. Do I send my deposit to Doug or Van?
 
With that logic, Johnson & Johnson should just sell baby shampoo and nothing else. 3M should just sell post it notes and not expand into anything else. US automakers should just go back to selling nothing but black cars. And Airventure should just be a handful of guys with Pietenpols and nothing else.

Just keep the status quo and never change. Sounds like the old USSR and East Germany. You can buy any car you want, as long as it's a Trabant.

Change is not good if you can't make money at it. There are also plenty of example of companies going out of business because they changed to things outside of their strengths. Just looking at product, McDonald's no longer sells the McLean, Lockheed no longer makes commercial airliners, Ford no longer makes garden tractors.

Wait, SONEX is making a jet and nothing of the sort is coming from the Vans Skunkworks? Instead of talking about Porsches lets talk about jets! I'm sure if Sonex can do it Van can do it better. Do I send my deposit to Doug or Van?

But will sonex ever sell enough to recoup development cost? Vans is a business that is unwilling to increase prices (for customers benefit) of existing products to fund the risk of some they do not think will make them dollars. Remember they are the masters of a very thin margin and therefore can not afford very much risk.
 
Change is not good if you can't make money at it. There are also plenty of example of companies going out of business because they changed to things outside of their strengths. Just looking at product, McDonald's no longer sells the McLean, Lockheed no longer makes commercial airliners, Ford no longer makes garden tractors.

But will sonex ever sell enough to recoup development cost? Vans is a business that is unwilling to increase prices (for customers benefit) of existing products to fund the risk of some they do not think will make them dollars. Remember they are the masters of a very thin margin and therefore can not afford very much risk.

How do you know what Van's accounting is like? Are you their CPA?

I would hazard a guess, that Vans offering a high wing kit or two, would be a nice addition to round out their lineup of aircraft. Certainly the demand is there for high wing planes.

Rans introduced the S19 low wing kit not long ago. Why would they do such a crazy thing? After all, Vans has the market cornered with low wing kits. Oh wait there is that other company called Zenith too. So it would be futile for anyone else in experimental aviation to think about offering a low wing kit right?. NOT!

With that logic, we as consumers would have a very pathetic selection of items to choose from at any retail location.

Why in the world did Lowes hardware open up? Surely the bankers laughed them out of the building, while pointing to Home Depot down the street.

Burger King? You have to be kidding. McDonalds has the market on hamburgers. Forget that idea. Wendys? Get out of here, never going to work. Just go to McDonalds.

No, not all product introductions are successful. No, not all businesses are wisely managed. But simply saying Van's can't or shouldn't do a high wing is ridiculous.

Van or his successor will ultimately decide, since they are the ones who will know the numbers and where they want the business to go and what they want to tackle.

If it ever comes to pass that Vans does offer a high wing kit, it would not surprise me in the least that they grabbed a whole new lineup of customers sending checks their way.
 
"How do you know what Van's accounting is like? Are you their CPA?"

Dude, relax! This is supposed to be a low stress place!:)
 
Vans New High Wing

Through a variety of seedy contacts, I was able to get an image of a new and highly secret project at Vans aircraft. It took months of planning and intelligence gathering.

What we do know is this. A new model is indeed underway. It was extremely difficult to get a proper photograph of the project. Apparently Vans has gotten hold of some very high tech military hangar floor paint that somehow masks and distorts objects on the floor, thus making photography extremely difficult. Word on the street is that the paint it is straight out of Area 51.

Only one photo of this new project was able to be taken before the guard chihuahua made a beeline to the operative.

With the photo distortions, it is hard to tell, but it appears a high wing of some sort is being developed. Whether or not it will be a tip up or slider model is yet to be determined.

One thing is for sure though....it will be yellow and white.

VansHighWing_zps92d72ef6.jpg
 
How do you know what Van's accounting is like? Are you their CPA?

No not their CPA but have bought tens of thousands of dollars of stuff from them and I have priced them against others on many items. Also he charges very odd prices (never ending in 99) like $2.06 for something tells me he uses a % margin and not round up to the next traditional price.
Buy a kit and learn what the van's company is all about.
 
Fun to speculate

I'm neither an accountant or aeronautical engineer but I am pretty sure that Van doesn't pay those engineers that he employs to just sit around without a project. The economics must make sense for sure and any design (I think) begins with available engines - then aerodynamics.

So let me speculate about a 'high wing' Van's aircraft. My opinion, Van's has done about all that they can with two person low wing aircraft except design and sell kits for a second high wing LSA or improve existing kits. So the high wing that I visualize will be a four place hauler with at least a 250 HP engine. Maybe a 'round' engine. @ 450 HP or a small turboprop.

Something that will be fast enough to move four people plenty fast with at least four hours of fuel. High lift type wing too. Something that the people who want to build a float plane or land on rough fields or haul heavy loads or parachutists will either build himself or have built for him. A 'working' machine primarily.

It would be primarily a tail dragger with maybe an 'A' model offering for those who would want it.

This is not an aircraft that I would operate or could afford - first things first - would it sell???
 
Vans High Wing

So let me speculate about a 'high wing' Van's aircraft. My opinion, Van's has done about all that they can with two person low wing aircraft except design and sell kits for a second high wing LSA or improve existing kits. So the high wing that I visualize will be a four place hauler with at least a 250 HP engine. Maybe a 'round' engine. @ 450 HP or a small turboprop.

Something that will be fast enough to move four people plenty fast with at least four hours of fuel. High lift type wing too. Something that the people who want to build a float plane or land on rough fields or haul heavy loads or parachutists will either build himself or have built for him. A 'working' machine primarily.

Sounds good but, completely ignores Vans primary mass market appeal and target market. With those specs, you are well over the six figure mark in cost. A very small niche market indeed. But it is possible, if he wants to start targeting a completely new buying audience.

I think if Van were to do a high wing, it would most likely be similar in specs to the Bearhawk or Patrol or the like. Keeping the total cost under 100k and probably under 80k if feasible.

Or maybe he will do another low wing to knock Sonex off it's little niche perch it has.
 
IMO: If Vans does a high wing it will be cantilevered, no struts. Gotta look good to be an RV and struts don't.

(Former 182 owner...)
 
Because a high wing has the "dangle down" thing going on they attract a large share of the nuts.
 
He's already got one

Just get the flop tubes and inverted oil, then you can put the wing on any side you like. :p
 
so, kitting up a Glastar sportsman type bush plane would require the -9 or -14 wing! ......and a super cool retro split door like on a cub, so you could fly with yer arm hangin out...and get at the stuff in the back. (no CAR doors please!)
I think the CH750/850 answers the question of what a bushplane looks like with a nosewheel, so forget that option!:eek:

Try a Cessna 172/182/206. That's what a bush plane looks like with a nose wheel, and with a much better accident record than the 185, etc.
 
Man, talk about a severe lack of imagination! Clearly Van's needs to come out with a reusable orbital vehical similar to the shutte:

space-shuttle-atlantis_1223_600x450.jpg


Oh, and it would be a low wing of course... :D
 
:mad::mad::mad:

Ruined the marque....


[ed. Couldn't agree more! But, sometimes, a company offering a product that at first look might not seem like a good idea turns out to be a home run. The following 'Porsche SUV' example is somewhat parallel to the hypothetical 'Van's high wing'.

My hopefully humorous point was that once they started offering the Cayenne (SUV), it became 31%-57% of their total N.American sales over 12 years. Wondering out loud if Van's high wing offering would do same.... Hard to argue with a 31-57% increase in sales... The Porsche 'SUV' was nearly 45% of their sales in 2011 - almost 13,000 sold in that one year (in N.America). Yep.

source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche#North_American_sales

jrbexe.jpg


V/r, dr]




***Edit*** Yeah yeah, I know. Sales went up. But with that vehicle came the end of the racing program, the end of an era where every Porsche released was track worthy. Even the 996 (that era's 911 version) was released with a caveat that it wasn't ok with extended cornering loads. In other words, it wasn't a sportscar (they since fixed that after a meltdown from the masses). Dr Ferdinand did a few dozen backflips in his grave that year. For me, the new company direction took away the passion that used to be Porsche and created another volkswagon in it's place. The passion was replaced by sensibility. I'll admit, there is still one in my garage...but only because it's a highly massaged track beast that fits me and my driving style too well to let go of. It took me a decade to get it handling exactly how I want it...so it's hard to let go of. I won't buy another Porsche though...when one day my ambition exceeds my ability and I ball it up in turn 12 at Road Atlanta (I just know that's the one that will get me one day). The company just doesn't think like me anymore. Perhaps the soccer moms they are marketing SUV's to will end up being as loyal as the racers they replaced. A dozen of my friends who all used to race with me in PCA are now racing Mazda's or BMW and none of them would consider coming back. My problem of course is that I'm one of the group that the new Porsche turned their back on....it's entirely possible that the new group is just a better business model than we were but that doesn't mean I have to like them. I still give the Porsche mini van's a look of disdain and don't even get me started on the station wagon.

The problem started after the SC was replaced by the first Carerra and they started the long slide into being a bourgeois-mobile. Once electric windows were no longer an option the end was inevitable. I've had a series of 911s, if I get another Porsche it will be a 70's rs
 
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