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07-21-2015, 11:15 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Lemoore
Posts: 187
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Push button start w/ toggle magneto switches
Hello again,
I am looking to change my standard key ignition to a push button start with toggle switches for the magnetos. While more mechanically savvy, I am the first to admit I'm not the most educated on the electrical side of the house (though I am learning). Looking on Aircraft spruce I see a variety of possible switches for both. For example the starter: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalo...tswitch132.php and the magneto switches: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalo...php#review_tab
But I am not sure if I am safe with the amp, volt specifications. I have your standard system with a 60 amp alt. For those who have done, or have seen this done before, I'm looking for suggestions on the best switches to use for this.
Thanks a lot!
Wick
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07-21-2015, 11:26 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Ridgecrest, CA
Posts: 432
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B&C Starter Switch
Starter Push-Button Switch
Price: $17.00
Item Number: S895-1
I used this and two ignition toogle switches.
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07-21-2015, 11:38 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: 57AZ - NW Tucson area
Posts: 10,011
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You want a push button that needs a fairly high force to activate. A sensitive switch could get accidently pushed.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalo...sbutswitch.php
It has a higher push force than the B&C one and is similar to the starter button in my certified Tiger.
__________________
Gil Alexander
EAA Technical Counselor, Airframe Mechanic
Half completed RV-10 QB purchased
RV-6A N61GX - finally flying
Grumman Tiger N12GA - flying
La Cholla Airpark (57AZ) Tucson AZ
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07-21-2015, 11:40 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Frederick, MD
Posts: 821
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I use Mil Spec locking toggles for the ignition and a push button for start. The locking toggles ensure that you can't just bump the switch to the alternate position. I don't have P/N's with me but can supply them if needed.
__________________
Dan Morris
Frederick, MD
PA28-140
Hph 304CZ
RV6 built and sold
N199EC RV6A flying
Learn the facts. "Democracy dies in darkness"
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07-21-2015, 02:04 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,291
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Some suggestions...
Toggle switches - I highly recommend going with the slightly more expensive MS switches like these:
http://www.bandc.biz/toggleswitch-MS35058-22.aspx
Install them with protection so you can't accidentally turn the ignition off. I really like the Space Shuttle switch guards from Perihelion Designs:
http://www.periheliondesign.com/switchguards.htm
For the start switch, this one works well:
http://www.bandc.biz/starterpush-buttonswitch.aspx
While the B&C part comes with a circular guard, I prefer mine mounted under a hinged guard like this:
http://steinair.com/storedetail.cfm?productid=373
Note the round pushbutton switch fits perfectly under the hinged guard. If you're going to purchase the Space Shuttle guards for the toggle switches, Perihelion can also supply the hinged switch guard.
One other big note here. With a magneto, the engine runs when the P-lead circuit is not grounded. In terms of "switch-ology" this means the switch is open circuit "open" to make the engine run. We close the switch contacts to connect ground to the P-lead. This means we have to install the switch upside down in the panel. Keep in mind the normal orientation of a switch is "up = on = closed circuit"... in this case we want "up = engine run = OPEN circuit". This means we have to drill the small hole for the anti-rotation tab opposite the normal orientation for our ignition switches.
As an aside, some folks get very concerned about some kid inadvertently activating the starter while your airplane is at a breakfast or airshow. The quick fix for this is to install a circuit breaker collar on the starter circuit breaker, thus ensuring the starter never gets power. Similarly, a bar with a lock, a bolt with a nylock, or any similar device through the ignition switch guards prevents the switches from being toggled into the "live mag" condition.
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07-21-2015, 02:42 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Shreveport, LA
Posts: 1,002
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I had a plane with two toggle switches for the mags. The left toggle mag switch was pushed up for the momentary position in order to start the plane. The plane had 2 slick mags, with the impulse on the left mag.
If I had to perform an "in the air" restart, I had to remember to turn off the right toggle switch before pushing the left toggle switch up to restart. The starter would not engage if I forgot to turn off the right mag. I found after years of flying with a keyed mag/starter, this new procedure was unnatural to me. I was concerned I would forget to turn off the right mag in order to restart the engine in a real emergency. I replaced these toggles with the standard keyed starter/mag.
I only post this as something to consider before making the switch.
Last edited by blueflyer : 07-21-2015 at 02:47 PM.
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07-21-2015, 02:45 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Sausalito, CA
Posts: 325
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I didn't build my plane, but the gentleman who built it did exactly what you're proposing and I really like the way he did it. Here's a photo showing the two locking mag switches (you must pull them out to operate), the starter button enabler switch (lower right), which is protected, and the starter button below that. Hopefully you can do some googling based on this image to figure out the parts. My logs, etc. are in storage at my A&P's place.

__________________
Joe Zuffoletto
RV-8 (flying)
Fullerton, CA (KFUL)
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07-21-2015, 02:55 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RVDan
I use Mil Spec locking toggles for the ignition and a push button for start. The locking toggles ensure that you can't just bump the switch to the alternate position. I don't have P/N's with me but can supply them if needed.
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Dan - just a thought here, with no negative intent.
I considered using the locking switches and in fact purchased them. Then I got thinking about the "what if's" and realized there was a down-side to the locking switches. The down-side is that we can't turn the engine off quickly when using them. In the event of a couple of situations happening (losing the tip of a prop in flight, losing brakes on the ground in tight quarters), one wants to be able to kill the engine quickly. Grabbing the mixture is one option, switching the ignition off is another. With locking toggles that second option is removed.
That's why I opted to go with guarded switches rather than locking switches since the guarded switches can be turned off in one downward motion with two fingers.
Again, just throwing this idea out for consideration. We all have our preferences.
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07-21-2015, 02:56 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Overseas
Posts: 152
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Stick Grip Switch and Enable Circuit
I have my starter switch on the pinky button of the stick grip, which lets me keep the stick back when starting. But I put an enable switch in the loop on the panel. The switch has to be up to complete the circuit so that the starter engages when you push the button. If the circuit is open (switch down and guarded), the pinky button does nothing.
I also have two toggles to ground the mags. My impulse coupling is on the left mag, so I start with the left mag switch up and then I switch on the other (unground) once the engine is running.
Works great.
-Matt
N402BD
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07-21-2015, 08:43 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Frederick, MD
Posts: 821
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian_JOY
Dan - just a thought here, with no negative intent.
I considered using the locking switches and in fact purchased them. Then I got thinking about the "what if's" and realized there was a down-side to the locking switches. The down-side is that we can't turn the engine off quickly when using them. In the event of a couple of situations happening (losing the tip of a prop in flight, losing brakes on the ground in tight quarters), one wants to be able to kill the engine quickly. Grabbing the mixture is one option, switching the ignition off is another. With locking toggles that second option is removed.
That's why I opted to go with guarded switches rather than locking switches since the guarded switches can be turned off in one downward motion with two fingers.
Again, just throwing this idea out for consideration. We all have our preferences.
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That is a good point that Klaus Savier once made to me. But then he races and uses a home brew prop. However I have a certified metal prop and consider the risk minimal, and at most it might cost me a second. Certainly, the flip up guards would be considerably slower.
__________________
Dan Morris
Frederick, MD
PA28-140
Hph 304CZ
RV6 built and sold
N199EC RV6A flying
Learn the facts. "Democracy dies in darkness"
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