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06-29-2015, 01:36 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: -
Posts: 502
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Right there with you on this one. It would be very difficult to curtail access to weather with the current architecture.
David
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06-29-2015, 01:43 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Edgewater, FL. KSFB
Posts: 1,118
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"This is all about better ATC density in terminal environments. In other words, primarily Part 121 operations and high end GA operations (biz jets, king airs, etc.) that are the majority users of Class B terminal airpots."
It is the FAA's plan to provide separation using ADS-B. This would be the reason for us having to use "Accepted Equipment". Allowing everyone to use Non-accepted equipment or position source is not a good way to provide separation.
They/we need to trust your reported position.
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06-29-2015, 01:49 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dallas area
Posts: 10,768
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Let's see............
Should I buy VHS or Betamax?
__________________
Mel Asberry, DAR since the last century.
EAA Flight Advisor/Tech Counselor, Friend of the RV-1
Recipient of Tony Bingelis Award and Wright Brothers Master Pilot Award
USAF Vet, High School E-LSA Project Mentor.
RV-6 Flying since 1993 (sold)
<rvmel(at)icloud.com>
Last edited by Mel : 06-29-2015 at 03:12 PM.
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06-29-2015, 02:22 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 421
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Gotta love the FAA....

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06-29-2015, 03:09 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Clearwater, FL KCLW
Posts: 1,281
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It looks like the only people this affects are those with non-approved ADSB-out position sources. They will essentially be treated as ADSB-in users, and only be able to receive traffic data intended for approved ADSB-out users in the area. IE, they will not have traffic data broadcast specifically to them. This is the same as it is now for those with ADSB-In only, like stratus and other systems.
Correct me if I am wrong, but this makes more technical sense, as they can't prevent anybody from receiving and displaying the traffic and weather data that they send.
All that being said, I still believe it is wrong of them to set a 2020 deadline (that I doubt even they will meet), and then punish users for not complying earlier, especially users who were at least partly buying into and using the system.
Chris
__________________
Chris Johnson
RV-9A - Done(ish) 4/5/16! Flying 4/7/16
Last edited by YellowJacket RV9 : 06-29-2015 at 03:13 PM.
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06-29-2015, 03:26 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Livermore, CA
Posts: 6,797
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My cynical view is that the FAA has noticed that there haven't been any false positions reported from EAB aircraft using $200 GPS position sources. If they let this go on, by 2020 there might be a lot of data showing that the original gps specifications (the source of the expense) are way overblown. Have to nip this in the bud.
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06-29-2015, 06:11 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: -
Posts: 502
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If you wanted to be really cynical, you'd guess that major avionics manufacturers are about to introduce new certified GPS position sources. Stimulate the market. 
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06-29-2015, 06:51 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 804
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apexeon
This morning I was ordering some oil filters and e-z turn lube from Spruce. I also had a Pathfinder ads-b in the cart to use with Avare on my Nexus 7. I took the ads-b out of the cart after reading this thread. Not going to spend $539 on something I can only use for 6 months. Why would the FAA put a limit on a service which has the potential to save lives.
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If you were not planning to install "ADS-B OUT" at this time, as I see it, you will STILL be able to get the same services and thus you might want to reconsider (and keep) your Pathfinder + Nexus.
The way I read it is that the FAA is simply saying
"OK folks, I know you have been using various handheld (and other) GPSes as position sources to "wake up" the system and have you look semi "legit" and thereby get full weather and traffic all the time. That is going to end as we get closer and we need to just work the system with the "approved" types of position sources. You will continue to get weather as promised on your ADS-B IN system but you will not get traffic unless a *nearby* "legit position source equipped" client wakes up the system".
So, in reality, it is like Brantel (I believe) said ... the "free lunch" (use of something like a 396 as position source) is coming to an end.
TO put things into perspective though, if you are in a HIGH DENSITY trsffice area, there is PROBABLY someone around with a "legit" position source that will hae the system "awakened" for you. On the other hand if you are not, that "same altitude, opposite direction" aircraft is not going to show up on your WingX/Foreflight/Garmin Pilot.
By the way, I did a bunch of testing of ADS-B stuff a while back and used 396/496 as postion sources and that was great! But I have since changed to 400W and GTN 650 as position sources and can see their point about the reliability/credibility/validity of the position source data.
__________________
James E. Clark
Columbia, SC
RV6 Flying, RV6A Cowling
APRS
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06-29-2015, 06:55 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Central IL
Posts: 5,516
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Well, I am not knowledgable enough to be upset. I have no clue what that paragraph means. What kind of GPS source is acceptable, GNS650? or does it need another "improved" and dedicated GPS signal?
So the G3X (don't touch), GNS650, GTX23ES + GDL39R aren't enough? What's missing?
__________________
Bill
RV-7
Lord Kelvin:
“I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about,
and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you
cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge
is of a meager and unsatisfactory kind.”
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06-29-2015, 07:22 PM
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VAF Moderator / Line Boy
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dayton, NV
Posts: 12,256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillL
Well, I am not knowledgable enough to be upset. I have no clue what that paragraph means. What kind of GPS source is acceptable, GNS650? or does it need another "improved" and dedicated GPS signal?
So the G3X (don't touch), GNS650, GTX23ES + GDL39R aren't enough? What's missing?
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The 650 should be totally acceptable (assuming it has all of the software updates, uh...up to date...).
__________________
Paul F. Dye
Editor at Large - KITPLANES Magazine
RV-8 - N188PD - "Valkyrie"
RV-6 (By Marriage) - N164MS - "Mikey"
RV-3B - N13PL - "Tsamsiyu"
A&P, EAA Tech Counselor/Flight Advisor
Dayton Valley Airpark (A34)
http://Ironflight.com
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