Ok what did I do wrong

[fl-mike]

Yes, you're doing it wrong.
Read the instructions from the paint manufacturer and follow them.
I see solvent pop and fisheyes as a minimum.


Generally:
Cleaning: Use paper towels or towels from the paint shop. Never use rags you have washed. There is silicone in fabric softener and silicone is the #1 cause of fisheyes.
Same goes for tack rags.
Never use an air hose that has been used with a tool oiler. Same deal. Use new hoses specifically for painting. Get a filter. The Airmotive "toilet paper" ones are good. Use a prep-sol for cleaning (the paint store should know what to give you). It is a mix of solvents and dries slower giving you time to allow you more time to apply an area and follow up with a clean towel to remove/dry.

Basecoat: Forget your "dust coats". Apply base for color coverage. DO NOT FLOOD IT! It will look like ****, matte and dull. It's supposed to look that way. For metallics your last coat should be a "drop" coat. Drop coat = backing off a bit to avoid tiger stripes. Look this stuff up on the Autobody 101 web site or similar if you need to understand the lingo. Most basecoats use a hardener. Again, get and read the instructions. When in doubt, use a slower reducer, it will help with flow-out. I would never use an "extra fast" anything. I always went one temperature range hotter than the ambient temp. Worked best for me. If you mess up the base coat, it will usually come off with laquer thinner.

Clear coat: No "dust coats". Put it on wet with overlaping wet edges. It's call "moving the wet edge" or something like that. Your solvent pops are from putting on the second coat too soon. Shoot a piece of cardboard at the end of your coats. When you can run your gloved hand across the clear on the cardboard without sticking (called "glove slick"), you're ready to shoot the second coat. I used a kitchen timer and just chilled until it rang (a full-face supplied air rig helps keep you cool too). Your tendency will be to rush it. Again, a slower reducer is your friend. Helps with flow-out. If you get a run, don't sweat it. Color sand and buff in a couple weeks. A couple of runs are much better than orange peel. I did two coats of clear on most of my plane and was able to color sand a few runs with no problem. Less weight too.

Grab some black base and practice on some junk yard trunk lids until you get your technique and gun dialed in. Black is cheap(er) and will show your mistakes best. And yeah, a good gun helps, but is not going to help if your technique is lacking. Lots of guys shoot great paint jobs with cheap guns. Run the pressure at the gun/tip the manufacturer suggests (and the pressure is with the trigger pulled) and the proper tip size.

It's a learning experience, but very satisfying once you get it figured out.

Good luck!

[BillL]

Originally Posted by madmaveric

Looking at that pic has thrown up a possible cause.

When I purchased the paint it was stated to mix base with thinner at 2:1
Looking closer at the base tin it says 2k on it, I thought that 2k meant it needs hardener or does that just mean it has to be covered in 2k lacquer?

I was told only the clear needed the hardener in it but the person who mixed it wasn't the person who served me. I wonder if the person serving was describing a different paint to the one I received.

I can't find out until Monday now as they don't work Sunday but if that is the case I wonder if it could cause the issues I'm seeing.

Go to the link you provided - it has a lot of mixing and compatibility information. Yes, 2K comes from a German designation as 2 Komponent. Print out the tech documents for each, then after studying, go talk to the paint seller, and a painter who uses this paint. He will set you straight so fast, that unless you have studied all the information, you won't understand the explanation. I like to talk to the real experts, so, go local, and tell them about your project and they will be your new best friend!

[dave4754]

You mention a copper tube supply, if hot compressor air was traveling down that supply tube and then hitting a colder end near the gun you may be getting water in your spray pattern. Fish eye results from that I think.

I always have had a filter and a water trap near my supply hose and drained each pot of paint.

I also ensure there is a loop of supply hose about twenty feet back from me.

Some more ideas for you, just thought of mine.

Good luck, i do like the color though!

[Russ McCutcheon]

Originally Posted by dave4754

You mention a copper tube supply, if hot compressor air was traveling down that supply tube and then hitting a colder end near the gun you may be getting water in your spray pattern. Fish eye results from that I think.

I always have had a filter and a water trap near my supply hose and drained each pot of paint.

I also ensure there is a loop of supply hose about twenty feet back from me.

Some more ideas for you, just thought of mine.

Good luck, i do like the color though!

Good call,,,, we have a 50' hose coiled in big loops coming off the compressor hanging on the wall then a filter dryer then to the air hose for your tool/gun.

[madmaveric]

Firstly thanks for all the replies. For some reason the forum wasn't working for me this morning (in fact this site and also vansairforce.net both were unavailable)

Sorry about the title, I thought as it was in the painting section it wasn't needed but I guess a lot of people use the 'new posts' option (like I do myself) so it is a bit random on that list. I'll change it if I can figure out how to (editing the original post doesn't allow me to change it)

I have to sort out the contamination problem or resign myself to the fact of having to pay someone to do it (and thereby not being able to say I did it all myself )

On the contamination issue. When it came to stripping the part above it I found that a rag soaked in acetone and cling filmed to the panel removed the paint far quicker than I expected. I believe this may be one of the sources of my problems as I clean the guns with it, then I leave some in the cup with the nozzle in. At painting time I empty and wipe out the gun, spray some air through and then off I go.
I need to get some proper gun cleaning solution (I'm not sure if I can use the thinner I have for gun cleaning or not).

The only problem with reading the instructions is that the base paint doesn't have any it came from the store with the advice of not needing hardener (just the thinners) and there isn't any online info I can find about it like the rest of the paint I got. I will have to check with the store on that.

I use some of those large blue paper rolls that I use for cleaning, so I should be ok there (unless they are providing the contaminate) and, as they are cheap, I don't mind using a lot of them.

for the air supply I have separate air lines for painting and airtools to avoid cross contamination, my pipework/filters for painting can be seen here (from the blog)
I'm hoping I have done enough there to keep the air ok, there is still a chance the last hose section could be a problem as someone else has mentioned.
The guns has these on it for filtering and checking the pressure (with trigger open)


I like the idea of extra hose but I don't have space for that It was hard enough finding space for the copper 'water trap' drops, I probably have the least space of all the build spaces I have seen.

Thanks for the painting tips, I always thought the first coat had to be a dust coat (I did say I hadn't painted for 20 years though) so that is good advice.

The fast hardener I have was what was recommended at the shop, I will try and find a local painter for a chat (and maybe a bit of cash to come help with the first set-up). There is a guy fairly close, I will pop in and see if I can get him interested in coming to help 'some idiot trying to build a plane in a shed' round the corner as I'm sure I will be called

Good tip on the cardboard checks for the clearcoat, it wasn't easy to see when it dried as it doesn't go matt lol

I was wondering if one of those air purifiers you see people with allergies using would be of any use, for a few hours before painting, to help clean the air.

Thanks for all the tips guys.

I try and provide my setup/solutions (if I have any) to the tips so that you can check if I'm doing things right.

My next steps this week are going to be
1) Get some more base as I've now run out and see if I can get some cheap practice base.
2) Check on the mix of the base and try to get a spec sheet from the supplier
3) Get some proper cleaner for my guns (I'm hoping this is the main issue)
4) Try and catch the painter at the shop and see if I can persuade him to help out.

[madmaveric]

Found the place to change the title, I had to be in advanced mode but was in my usual simple mode lol

[spark68]

Just a few suggestions from my experience.

Recommend you do not call your finish paint "lacquer" as it is acrylic by the tech sheet. Calling it lacquer may confuse someone giving advice.

You need another filter on the air hose. Get one recommended for painting air and put it after your primary filter. Many available sources. Harbour Freight has one, not terribly expensive. Also available are small white units to use right at the spray gun. Good insurance.

I would believe that your base coat needs a hardener as it is labeled 2K = Two component.

Shouldn't need to buff, clean and tack rag between coats if you stay within the re-coat time window noted on the paint (typically 24 hours). Tack rags can leave residue if used too vigorously. Maybe just a light air spray to remove dust if necessary, but probably not needed.

Make sure your base material is very very clean before first primer coat. Clean with solvent, alumiprep or other etch is a good start. Fish eye in your primer will not cover up with base coat but will continue to show in following coats.

Clean your gun with the same thinner as used for the paint to avoid compatibility problems.

[madmaveric]

Apologies for the Lacquer/clear confusion, I thought they both referred to the same thing (a clear lacquer on top of a colour). I will try and stick to using clear coat from now on.

I currently have 2 filters and 2 water traps/drops at the moment. What filter would you recommend over what I have already?
I thought I was covered withe the 10 micron draper one and the moisture trap one on the gun but I'm happy to add more if it will improve things.

Agreed on the paint, I will check next time I get up the shop (I've run out of base so I will have to get more anyway)

I only tack rag between coats (buffing/cleaning was for bare metal) and then gently. I still remember 30 years ago the first time I used them with a heavy hand, the first coat looked like someone had smeared chewing gum on the paint lol. I learned that lesson quick (or slow as it took ages to re-prep the roof)

I didn't have fish eyes on this primer but previously I've had it if I go too heavy. I plan to use this to track down the source, primer painted heavy with the idea to be able to get runs without fish-eyes (just to prove I have fixed the contamination). I see lots of scrap being needed in the near future.

I plan on completely washing the gun with thinners rather than acetone and drying properly to see if that stops it. I just need to find out if the 2k thinners I have is ok for cleaning and storing in the gun when not in use or if I need a different thinner for that.

Thanks again for the tips.

[BillL]

Originally Posted by spark68

Just a few suggestions from my experience.

Recommend you do not call your finish paint "lacquer" as it is acrylic by the tech sheet. Calling it lacquer may confuse someone giving advice.

The Churchill spec sheet does refer the the clear coat as "lacquer".

And - let's not hear about the bonnet or the boot either.

Two countries divided by a common language. Brilliant!

Cheers

[Larco]

You want to say you painted it yourself Great. You want it to look great. so a suggestion is to have an experienced local painter familiar with what you are using and doing come over and give you a tutorial. Have the person walk you through the process on the wings or a piece or two. It might cost a few bucks but you will probably get more out it than you paid for. Larry :-)