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POSTING RULES

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04-30-2015, 10:03 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: KRTS
Posts: 1,798
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Again, NTSB notification. The clock is ticking.
http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx...dno=49;cc=ecfr
830.1 Applicability.
This part contains rules pertaining to:
(a) Initial notification and later reporting of aircraft incidents and accidents and certain other occurrences in the operation of aircraft, wherever they occur, when they involve civil aircraft of the United States; when they involve certain public aircraft, as specified in this part, wherever they occur; and when they involve foreign civil aircraft where the events occur in the United States, its territories, or its possessions.
(b) Preservation of aircraft wreckage, mail, cargo, and records involving all civil and certain public aircraft accidents, as specified in this part, in the United States and its territories or possessions.
[60 FR 40112, Aug. 7, 1995]
Aircraft accident means an occurrence associated with the operation of an aircraft which takes place between the time any person boards the aircraft with the intention of flight and all such persons have disembarked, and in which any person suffers death or serious injury, or in which the aircraft receives substantial damage. For purposes of this part, the definition of “aircraft accident” includes “unmanned aircraft accident,” as defined herein.
Substantial damage means damage or failure which adversely affects the structural strength, performance, or flight characteristics of the aircraft, and which would normally require major repair or replacement of the affected component. Engine failure or damage limited to an engine if only one engine fails or is damaged, bent fairings or cowling, dented skin, small punctured holes in the skin or fabric, ground damage to rotor or propeller blades, and damage to landing gear, wheels, tires, flaps, engine accessories, brakes, or wingtips are not considered “substantial damage” for the purpose of this part.
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Next?, TBD
IAR-823, SOLD
RV-8, SOLD
RV-7, SOLD
Last edited by Sig600 : 04-30-2015 at 10:06 AM.
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04-30-2015, 01:22 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: ____
Posts: 829
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Helmet and Visor
Quote:
Originally Posted by precession
Wow, sure glad you were able to get back on the ground in one piece. Congratulations on your successful handling of the emergency, and thanks for sharing the experience.
Based on your statement that you lost your glasses, it's my understanding you were able to see well enough while looking into the wind at 90 mph, or whatever speed you slowed down to, with the just the naked eye to get it on the ground. Interesting bit of information, as I've often assumed a canopy loss or jettison will likely result in the loss of glasses, and have wondered if it will even be possible to see. Any other comments on this?... e.g., were your eyes taking the full blast of air at 90 mph as you looked forward, or were they partially shielded by turbulence over the nose?... were you looking out the sides mostly instead of forward?... having trouble with getting hit with bugs in the eyes?... Just a few questions I've wondered about in the event it ever happens to me. Makes me think having a spare pair of safety glasses secured in the cockpit might be a worthwhile safety precaution.
Fortunately, my distance vision is good without corrective lenses, but I'd imagine a near-sighted person would have a severe problem on their hands if they had a canopy loss for any reason (latch, bird strike, jettison, etc.) and subsequent loss of glasses.
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Enough to make me dust off the old helmet and visor. Time for an ANR headset install. My ride has a sloper windscreen, but it is goose season.
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04-30-2015, 10:11 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sig600
Again, NTSB notification. The clock is ticking.
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There is nothing in your quoted text of the regulations that indicate any "clock ticking". If he needs to gather more information before he even decides to report it... I think that is reasonable. If he decides to report it, or maybe already has, I don't think it's anyone's business here. But if your intent was to sqwash anymore information on what happened and how.... you are probably succeeding. 
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RV-x Planning stage
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04-30-2015, 11:23 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Southern California
Posts: 882
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Substantial Damage
Quote:
Originally Posted by enielsen
There is nothing in your quoted text of the regulations that indicate any "clock ticking". If he needs to gather more information before he even decides to report it... I think that is reasonable. If he decides to report it, or maybe already has, I don't think it's anyone's business here. But if your intent was to sqwash anymore information on what happened and how.... you are probably succeeding. 
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Nore does this appear to be a case of substantial damage...
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05-01-2015, 03:38 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
Posts: 924
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Whether he reports it or not, is none of OUR business anyway!!
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05-01-2015, 06:16 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: KRTS
Posts: 1,798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enielsen
There is nothing in your quoted text of the regulations that indicate any "clock ticking". If he needs to gather more information before he even decides to report it... I think that is reasonable. If he decides to report it, or maybe already has, I don't think it's anyone's business here. But if your intent was to sqwash anymore information on what happened and how.... you are probably succeeding. 
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You guys (GA pilot community as a whole) need to become familiar with NTSB 830. Ignorance of the rules is not an excuse. Depending on the type of incident/accident, you have a set time frame within which the NTSB SHALL be notified. You don't get to "decide" as you say. I'm trying to keep the OP out of trouble... the FAA and NTSB have both formally announced they are using youtube and other social media as a means of investigation and enforcement now, and most GA pilots (as you demonstrate) don't understand they are responsible for reporting within the time specified.
In this particular instance... "Immediate" is pretty clearly defined in the title.
http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx...30_15&rgn=div8
Quote:
Originally Posted by skylor
Nore does this appear to be a case of substantial damage...
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Read it again.
Substantial damage means damage or failure which adversely affects the structural strength, performance, or flight characteristics of the aircraft, and which would normally require major repair or replacement of the affected component.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RV10Man
Whether he reports it or not, is none of OUR business anyway!!
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There is so much wrong with this statement I don't even know where to start. Since I don't feel like typing a complete editorial I'll ask two questions.
1.) Would you stop a fellow pilot from unknowingly (or knowingly) violating a rule before he did it?
2.) Do you feel the actions/inactions of your fellow pilots can adversely effect your future ability to enjoy aviation?
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Next?, TBD
IAR-823, SOLD
RV-8, SOLD
RV-7, SOLD
Last edited by Sig600 : 05-01-2015 at 06:23 AM.
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05-01-2015, 07:55 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Gardnerville Nv.
Posts: 2,828
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Good info Pat, thanks for the clarifcation.
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7A Slider, EFII Angle 360, CS, SJ.
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05-01-2015, 09:48 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Sutter Creek, CA
Posts: 842
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sig600
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IMHO this incident does not meet the test for immediate notification under 830.5. However even if it did, an immediate notification is NOT mandatory! It must be requested by an authorized representative of the Board!
?830.15 Reports and statements to be filed.
(a) Reports. The operator of a civil, public (as specified in ?830.5), or foreign aircraft shall file a report on Board Form 6120. 1⁄2 (OMB No. 3147-0001)2 within 10 days after an accident, or after 7 days if an overdue aircraft is still missing. A report on an incident for which immediate notification is required by ?830.5(a) shall be filed only as requested by an authorized representative of the Board.
One must always read the entire subpart to ensure complete understanding! Even a GA guy knows that, right?
__________________
Mark Ohlau
RV-6 N506MM VAF #1410
2017 Donation Made
Last edited by jetjok : 05-01-2015 at 09:57 AM.
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05-01-2015, 11:27 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: KRTS
Posts: 1,798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetjok
IMHO this incident does not meet the test for immediate notification under 830.5. However even if it did, an immediate notification is NOT mandatory! It must be requested by an authorized representative of the Board!
?830.15 Reports and statements to be filed.
(a) Reports. The operator of a civil, public (as specified in ?830.5), or foreign aircraft shall file a report on Board Form 6120. 1⁄2 (OMB No. 3147-0001)2 within 10 days after an accident, or after 7 days if an overdue aircraft is still missing. A report on an incident for which immediate notification is required by ?830.5(a) shall be filed only as requested by an authorized representative of the Board.
One must always read the entire subpart to ensure complete understanding! Even a GA guy knows that, right?
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REPORT filed on REQUEST, does not absolve you of NOTIFICATION.
__________________
Next?, TBD
IAR-823, SOLD
RV-8, SOLD
RV-7, SOLD
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05-01-2015, 11:49 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Prescott, AZ
Posts: 1,614
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Sig,
I personally would not find your reminder of the law... to be too obnoxious. Just me. Others, however bristle when a forum member appoints themselves the defacto sheriff in town. We all have a ton of regs that apply to our hobby and or professional flying. Most, I would venture, are pretty aware of what they should do, to stay out of trouble. You are correct that punitive official types are not restricted from reading our posts. It would be a shame if the original intent, to share and learn.... becomes inhibited due to fear of a violation. The poster of the deadstick Bonanza landing in Alaska was contacted after the FAA listened carefully to the audio portion of his movies, and heard no evidence of a run up before takeoff.
To the original poster, most of us cringed first... and then remained impressed at how you handled the situation in flight. Thanks for posting !
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"Kindness is never a bad plan."
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