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  #11  
Old 04-29-2015, 06:48 AM
cajunwings cajunwings is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: new iberia la
Posts: 768
Default Gps

Same boat here. Planning Dynon or Garmin glass and debating the IFR navigator choices. I really like the KLN94 and it will do everything I wish to do but have not resolved the interface issues.


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  #12  
Old 04-29-2015, 06:55 AM
andyrv andyrv is offline
 
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Location: Leawood, KS
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Default GTN-625 for $5495 when purchased with G3X

Of course this offer came out not too long after I purchased a GTN-650. I would strongly consider this deal if I were buying before the end of this year.

http://garmin.blogs.com/promotions/2...l#.VUDTX2bohK4


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  #13  
Old 04-29-2015, 10:39 AM
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Ghost two-six Ghost two-six is offline
 
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What about this - a Garmin GNC-300Xl for the IFR approach database and the WAAS off of the Skyview ?
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  #14  
Old 04-29-2015, 05:27 PM
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dynonsupport dynonsupport is offline
 
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WAAS is not the issue. SkyView already has WAAS in the SV-250 GPS module.

To use GPS for primary navigation in IFR during the approach phase, the AIM says:

Quote:
1. Authorization to fly approaches under IFR using GPS avionics systems requires that:

(a) A pilot use GPS avionics with TSO- C129, or equivalent, authorization in class A1, B1, B3, C1, or C3; and

(b) All approach procedures to be flown must be retrievable from the current airborne navigation database supplied by the TSO-C129 equipment manufacturer or other FAA approved source. The system must be able to retrieve the procedure by name from the aircraft navigation database, not just as a manually entered series of waypoints.
and:

Quote:
1. Authorization to conduct any GPS operation under IFR requires that:

(a) GPS navigation equipment used must be approved in accordance with the requirements specified in Technical Standard Order (TSO) TSO-C129, or equivalent, and the installation must be done in accordance with Advisory Circular AC 20-138, Airworthiness Approval of Global Positioning System (GPS) Navigation Equipment for Use as a VFR and IFR Supplemental Navigation System, or Advisory Circular AC 20-130A, Airworthiness Approval of Navigation or Flight Management Systems Integrating Multiple Navigation Sensors, or equivalent. Equipment approved in accordance with TSO-C115a does not meet the requirements of TSO-C129. Visual flight rules (VFR) and hand-held GPS systems are not authorized for IFR navigation, instrument approaches, or as a principal instrument flight reference. During IFR operations they may be considered only an aid to situational awareness.
Note that there is no mention of WAAS. The real mention is the TSO. The equipment must have a TSO authorization, and the database must come from there.

SkyView has a WAAS GPS. We could put all the databases in the world in SkyView, but it still wouldn't be legal to use.

We have more info here:
http://dynonavionics.com/cgi-bin/yab...num=1362597418

If you are looking for ADS-B OUT, but not IFR navigation, the units Isaac mentioned are OK (except the Grand Rapids which doesn't have a TSO, and is the same as the Dynon GPS). If you want to navigate with the GPS and not just do ADS-B OUT, then only Garmin, Avidyne, and Bendix King sell new GA units that will do what you need.

If you only want enroute or non-precision (and don't care about ADS-B out), the other devices like a 300XL can work, but note that these are not ADS-B OUT compliant when 2020 comes around. ADS-B OUT needs a precision approach capable GPS (Generically, one with WAAS, but also fully certified)
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Last edited by dynonsupport : 04-29-2015 at 05:31 PM.
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  #15  
Old 04-30-2015, 03:21 AM
BobTurner BobTurner is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N941WR View Post
What some people do is install something like an SL30 and then go direct with their non certified GPS. I'm not saying it is legal or prudent, I'm just repeating what I have heard.
To make this legal, you call up ATC and say, "How about a vector direct Salt Lake on, uh, a heading of 123?" (Of course you will fly your gps ground track). ATC knows what's up, and will often say okay.
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  #16  
Old 04-30-2015, 06:16 AM
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Ghost two-six Ghost two-six is offline
 
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Hey Dynon Guy,
The only reason I mention the WAAS is for lower approach mins. Also it's a shame your stuff does not work and play well with stormscope. ADS-B weather is great but Stormscope shows you stuff before it has any precip in it during the building phase. Plus it works outside of the USA.

And by the way if Skyview had approaches, SIDs and STARs I'd fly it all day long TSO or no TSO. You guys should be getting a cut from Garmin for all the guys buying that extra equipment just have this capability.
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Last edited by Ghost two-six : 04-30-2015 at 06:20 AM.
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  #17  
Old 04-30-2015, 08:23 AM
krw5927 krw5927 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost two-six View Post
Hey Dynon Guy,
The only reason I mention the WAAS is for lower approach mins. Also it's a shame your stuff does not work and play well with stormscope. ADS-B weather is great but Stormscope shows you stuff before it has any precip in it during the building phase. Plus it works outside of the USA.

And by the way if Skyview had approaches, SIDs and STARs I'd fly it all day long TSO or no TSO. You guys should be getting a cut from Garmin for all the guys buying that extra equipment just have this capability.
I'm not sure what your beef is with Skyview here. Garmin G3X, GRT, MGL....all of the other systems out there do exactly the same. Meaning none of them can, by themselves, serve as a legal enroute or approach capable GPS navigator - WAAS or no WAAS. It's not the fault of the manufacturers; they're limited by the FARs and so are you as a pilot.

Finally, you might not want to continue advertising on a public forum that you're willing to violate the FARs - especially as a self-proclaimed commercial pilot. I actually think those sorts of statements are in contrast with DR's policies here as well.
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  #18  
Old 04-30-2015, 10:35 AM
BobTurner BobTurner is offline
 
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Ghost,

Your complaints should be directed to the FAA. Their TSOs for ifr gps and now, ADSB, are huge overkill, bureaucratic nightmares, which add greatly to the costs. The smaller companies do not have the $$ to devote to compliance, especially given no assurance they would ever recover their costs.
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  #19  
Old 04-30-2015, 10:54 AM
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az_gila az_gila is offline
 
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Location: 57AZ - NW Tucson area
Posts: 10,011
Question IFR and TSO

Quote:
Originally Posted by dynonsupport View Post
WAAS is not the issue. SkyView already has WAAS in the SV-250 GPS module.

To use GPS for primary navigation in IFR during the approach phase, the AIM says:



and:



Note that there is no mention of WAAS. The real mention is the TSO. The equipment must have a TSO authorization, and the database must come from there.

SkyView has a WAAS GPS. We could put all the databases in the world in SkyView, but it still wouldn't be legal to use.

We have more info here:
http://dynonavionics.com/cgi-bin/yab...num=1362597418

If you are looking for ADS-B OUT, but not IFR navigation, the units Isaac mentioned are OK (except the Grand Rapids which doesn't have a TSO, and is the same as the Dynon GPS). If you want to navigate with the GPS and not just do ADS-B OUT, then only Garmin, Avidyne, and Bendix King sell new GA units that will do what you need.

If you only want enroute or non-precision (and don't care about ADS-B out), the other devices like a 300XL can work, but note that these are not ADS-B OUT compliant when 2020 comes around. ADS-B OUT needs a precision approach capable GPS (Generically, one with WAAS, but also fully certified)

Question for Dynon....

The above statements seem to say that use of a Dynon unit to provide Altitude Encoding may not be legal for IFR flight if a TSO is truly needed...
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  #20  
Old 04-30-2015, 11:09 AM
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dynonsupport dynonsupport is offline
 
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Gil,
Not sure what the above has to do with altitude encoding in a transponder.

Dynon has a statement of compliance for altitude encoding. Note that ADS-B REQUIRES the same altitude encoder to be used for the transponder and ADS-B OUT data.

Quote:
Altitude Reporting Compliance Statement for Dynon EFIS systems

Dynon’s EFIS-based systems models EFIS-D10, EFIS-D10A, EFIS-D100, FlightDEK-D180 and SkyView
system comply with FAR 91.217 subpart (b), thus satisfying FAA criteria for use in the Experimental and Light
Sport Aircraft categories.

All Dynon systems referenced above may be tested in accordance with FAR 91.411 per subparts (b)(2) & (b)(3)
and comply with Appendix E – Altimeter System Test and Inspection paragraph (c). See special instructions
below.

Background
Each of Dynon’s EFIS systems has an integrated air data computer and altitude encoder that are software
linked resulting in identical numerical values. The altitude reported to the transponder is always referenced to
pressure altitude (29.92” Hg). Setting the EFIS altimeter barometer to the pressure altitude value will cause the
altimeter to directly display the value being reported to the transponder.

Special Instructions
1) To set the altimeter barometer setting to 29.92” in any of the D10/D100 series devices, press any one of the
middle buttons to bring up the menu system. Next press the button under the BARO menu, then 29.92, then
BACK and finally EXIT. In the SkyView system, use either of the value knobs to select BARO as the controlled
parameter, then rotate the dial to adjust the indicated barometer setting value.

2) When pressure checking any aircraft equipped with Dynon’s special dual ported AOA/Pitot, please note that
this pitot design deliberately has a pin-sized leak hole in each of the two tubes (one each for Pitot & AOA) to
permit draining moisture which might accumulate inside. These holes are located in the middle of the tube at
the bottom. Plugging these holes does not guarantee a pneumatic seal (although one is sometimes present).
The leak that may exist does not affect the performance of the probe but must be taken into account when
doing pressure/leak tests on the pitot system.

3) If the altimeter or altitude encoder output are found to be out of specification, the following single-point
adjustment can be performed by navigating the menus to SETUP>ALTADJ in the D10/D100 series devices or
to HARDWARE CALIBRATION > ADAHRS CALIBRATION > ALTITUDE ADJUST in the SkyView series
devices. In the Altimeter Adjustment menu, the displayed value together with the corresponding encoder output
can be adjusted +/- 500 feet. After making this adjustment, ensure that the altimeter on the instrument meets
the tolerances allowed between 0 and 30,000 feet. If this adjustment does not bring the altimeter on the
instrument to within specification at all attitudes, please contact Dynon Avionics to return for service.
91.217(b) says that as long as your encoder is the same data as your altimeter (not a blind encoder) that's all you need. No TSO's or other data needed.

ADS-B transmits both pressure and geometric (GPS) altitude. The GPS altitude must come from a compliant device, the pressure must come from the same place as the transponder.
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