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04-22-2015, 05:44 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Chesterfield, Missouri
Posts: 4,514
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Cozy Girls may have retired also, the web site is still up but contact link is missing.
I knew them some years back, their products were excellent.
__________________
RV-12 Build Helper
RV-7A...Sold #70374
The RV-8...Sold #83261
I'm in, dues paid 2019 This place is worth it!
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04-22-2015, 06:48 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Calgary, Canada
Posts: 5,766
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There are a relative handful which have been flying well for years with most issues and bugs worked out over time demonstrating that they can indeed do the job.
There is a rabid following on Paul Lamar's site however many of these people will never complete the aircraft with Wankel power and I often wonder why so many drink the Kool-Aid on that site since Paul has never even flown a Wankel powered aircraft he built after all these years of dissing piston powered aircraft with his unique personality.
I researched about a dozen Wankel powered aircraft last year which first flew years ago and most of them only accumulated less than 100 hours before becoming virtual hangar queens. The initial faith in the concept often seems to be worn down by reality, problems and failures. In many cases, it was hard to find any evidence that these aircraft were still flying at all with Wankels.
Like any auto conversion, they can be made to work well as Tracy Crook demonstrated with many hundreds of hours. People going down this path should follow a proven recipe like his, not the opinions of someone who has zero hours and experience in one.
The Powersport RV8s with professionally developed PSRUs, years back showed good performance when tested at Van's but were unfortunately lost in accidents.
When you are doing your own FF development, every detail has to be right or something may bite you hard. After a few good scares, many people will choose to go down the well trodden path of the Lycoming before they really hurt themselves.
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04-22-2015, 07:12 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Central IL
Posts: 5,516
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SHIPCHIEF, Scott Emery on VAF started with a wankel - http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...d.php?t=108307
He has since moved to lycoming. He might be able to help with the pros and cons he found from real experience.
__________________
Bill
RV-7
Lord Kelvin:
“I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about,
and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you
cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge
is of a meager and unsatisfactory kind.”
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04-22-2015, 07:44 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Cornwall, ON
Posts: 5
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Thanks for the replies guys, I really appreciate it. I'm still quite a ways from needing a powerplant yet but I pretty much figured the kind of things that I'm hearing here. For simplicity's sake I'll probably end up just getting a Lycoming. I guess there's just a part of me that loves experimental things, and doing things the hard way
Ross, your signature says you've got a Marcotte PSRU. He's down in my neck of the woods (more or less), I wonder if he's still in business. His website says he does Mazda Rotaries, but it looks like he stopped updating his website in 2013.
I think part of my problem might be that I'm a relatively young man, and when I see a poorly maintained website that says to me "closed for business", when in fact they may just be savvier about planes than they are about web design. If you had asked me if rotaryeng.net was still around I would have said based on the web design and earthlink email address that it had been abandoned sometime in the late 90s...
Bill, I had seen some of SHIPCHIEF's old threads and I was wondering about just that! There seem to be a few guys who had rotaries installed who went back to Lycomings a few years or a couple hundred hours later. That doesn't say great things to me about the whole endeavour. Rotary lovers boast about the great reliability and super cheap maintenance/overhaul costs, but those points are kind of moot if you rip the whole thing out after 200 hours!
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04-22-2015, 08:35 AM
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: Pocahontas MS
Posts: 3,884
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I believe that the lack of success in *any* alternative engine has more to do with the installer/builder than the engine.
My Theory: The persons most willing to try an alt engine install are typically the least qualified for the task, and the persons most qualified are the least likely to give it a shot. The exceptions are people like Ross, and Tracy Crook; people with engineering training or expertise that also have a strong drive to experiment and the tenacity to work through all the development issues. (Building an RV is an experiment in name only; it's basically metal IKEA, now.) The rest of us don't know enough to really grasp the development difficulties, and when confronted by them, most of us (but not me, yet...) give up and go Lyc.
Ross, there are quite a few rotaries actively flying that have hundreds of hours. You just won't find most of them on Lamar's site, because anyone who disagrees with him gets booted off his list.
Bill, I think that your partner Ed (tell him 'Hi' for me) probably meant that if you want to *only* fly, buy a Lyc. IIRC, he accumulated hundreds of hours in the air in his 6A before medical issues stopped him. There's obviously more 'tinkering' with an alt engine than a Lyc, but that's experimenting. There's more 'tinkering' with an RV than a Cessna, too, if you build it yourself. :-)
Charlie
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04-22-2015, 08:44 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Lake Country, B.C. Canada
Posts: 2,416
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ANOTHER LINK FWIW
Here's a fellow in Prince George BC that has gone down the wankel road....installed and flying in an RV-9a.
http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm
no idea how it's doing currently, or how many hours.
__________________
Perry Y.
RV-9a - SOLD!....
Lake Country, BC
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04-22-2015, 10:00 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,412
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I built a turbo rotary power plant for my RV-8 and flew it for 16 hours.
I enjoyed the development, much of what RV6guy and RV7Charlie says are true.
I never was comfortable with it, because this type of project requires continuous inspection. After every flight, the cowl comes off for inspection, at least for more than the 16 hours I flew it.
I actually had very few problems, and no power failures, but there were coolant leaks, exhaust leaks, high exhaust temps, lean running on descent to final approach (stuttering) Turbocharger replacement due to incorrect selection. Later high exhaust temps and incorrect turbo insulation overheated the 2nd turbo's housing.
All of these adventures (and more) reduced the flying availability of the airframe, and limited flight to exercises in engine tuning and testing. This slowed the airframe development portion of the 40 hour Phase 1 test.
I removed the rotary power unit from the stock RV-8 airframe, it's sitting on my hangar floor, complete. I'm not sure what I'll do with it, maybe part out the mount, reduction gear, custom fabricated manifolds, and Real World Solutions engine control computer and engine monitor. The engine I keep. I still think it's great I'll find another job for it.
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Scott Emery
http://gallery.eaa326.org/v/members/semery/
EAA 668340, chapter 326 & IAC chapter 67
RV-8 N89SE first flight 12/26/2013
Yak55M, and the wife has an RV-4
There is nothing-absolute nothing-half so much worth doing as simply messing around with Aeroplanes
(with apologies to Ratty)
2019
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04-22-2015, 04:04 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 13
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I can?t remember any rotary engine failures that were actually the engine itself. Builder engineered support systems are another story. RWS PSRU?s that are operated within the design range are holding up very well. You have to be very persistent and willing to work through all the small issues or its best not to start. It?s easy to underestimate the effort required. I certainly did but I?m also enjoying the tinkering and making small improvements. That said I?m still loving my Rotary RV10. I?m very fortunate to have two other flying rotary power aircraft here in Austin TX. I have the least number of hours at 223. The Lancair ES should be over 350 and the RV7 should be north of 600.
Ross I?m still working on relocating my heat exchanger to the belly and shamelessly copied your basic design. I hope to have time to do the installation this fall. I?ve been traveling for business so much the last year that I hate to take the plane down when I?m home and have a chance to actually fly.
Bobby Hughes
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04-22-2015, 04:48 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Cartersville, Georgia KVPC
Posts: 945
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Quinton,
Talk to Dave Leonard ("Rodoc" here on the forums http://www.vansairforce.com/community/member.php?u=8652). He has a Mazda rotary RV-6 that has quite a few hours on it (and had it's share of teething problems, too). He doesn't get on the forums much, so sending him an email might be better than a PM. I can PM you an email address if you need it, but try the email link in his profile first. Dave will shoot straight with you, and has no problem discussing the problems he had...most of which were due to inadequate cooling.
It can be done, but as much as I too love the rotary, the saying is there for a reason....if you want to fly, go Lycoming. If you like to tinker, go with an alternate.
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Moose
VAF #136
Last edited by Michael White : 04-22-2015 at 04:55 PM.
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04-22-2015, 05:22 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Calgary, Canada
Posts: 5,766
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLoneGunman
Ross, your signature says you've got a Marcotte PSRU. He's down in my neck of the woods (more or less), I wonder if he's still in business. His website says he does Mazda Rotaries, but it looks like he stopped updating his website in 2013.
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Guy Marcotte is semi retired but still doing some work on redrives. His website and customer communication have never been his strong point but he is a savvy and friendly/ passionate fellow if you can talk to him.
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