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04-03-2015, 09:40 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Redlands, Ca.
Posts: 1,458
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailvi767
In most cases there is little or no actual investigation. The FAA and NTSB are swamped while facing decreasing budgets. They have to clear the accidents and often latch on to the quickest and simplest probable cause to get it off their desk. The simply have no choice.
Unless a accident has a high public interest, VIP's or some unique aspect it is going to be cleared with a few phone calls.
George
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....Back in the 70's there was an accident that occurred at or rather near my home airport in So-Cal. This fellow was a very accomplished pilot with many ratings, 13000 hrs. several meticulously maintained aircraft. After the accident and a great amount of time had passed, at least enough for most interest to fully die down. It was determined that the cause was "He didn't have a radio operators license"! Now that is what I would call a comprehensive investigation... 
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04-03-2015, 07:50 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Jackson Hole Wy
Posts: 57
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N820RV
Great thread and congrats for making a venue to discuss accidents... it can only help...IMHO...
Once the probable cause is released by the NTSB for N820RV I will be more then happy to share a ton of detailed info and hundreds of pics of the investigation...
I will say right up front.... The NTSB investigator ( Zoe Kelleher) sp? did a VERY indepth investigation over 4 days it was in my hangar where I stored the wreckage under lock and key.... I guess most experimental crashes are just dismissed, but this gal in not like any other NTSB person I have read about...
She even asked to fly in my experimental and we spent a couple of hours taking aerial pics and simulating the entire crash sequence........ I was VERY impressed with her thirst for an answer to the crash...
Ben.
Last edited by n801bh : 04-07-2015 at 05:01 PM.
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04-07-2015, 04:53 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Defiance, MO
Posts: 1,674
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Definitions?
Doug now has plotted the phase of flight when each of the accidents occurred. Does anyone know the FAA definition of each phase? When does take-off end and climb-out begin? When does approach end and landing begin? Etc.
There has to be a regulation that breaks it down.
[ed. Here's the pie chart Philip is talking about. dr]
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Philip
RV-6A - 14+ years, 950+ hours
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Last edited by DeltaRomeo : 04-07-2015 at 06:03 PM.
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04-07-2015, 10:00 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: AOTP
Posts: 192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PerfTech
....Back in the 70's there was an accident that occurred at or rather near my home airport in So-Cal...It was determined that the cause was "He didn't have a radio operators license"!
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Speaking only for myself, I would make sure I had personally read that conclusion in an NTSB document before repeating that story.
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Nauga
2004 RV-4
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04-08-2015, 03:34 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Defiance, MO
Posts: 1,674
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plehrke
Does anyone know the FAA definition of each phase? When does take-off end and climb-out begin? When does approach end and landing begin? Etc.
There has to be a regulation that breaks it down.
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Excellent question Philip.
I did a little Google research and found The International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) and the Commercial Aviation Safety Team (CAST), which includes Government officials and aviation industry leaders, have jointly chartered the CAST/ICAO Common Taxonomy Team (CICTT). The team was charged with developing common taxonomies and definitions for aviation accident and incident reporting systems. The common taxonomies and definitions are intended to improve the aviation community?s capacity to focus on common safety issues. CICTT includes experts from air carriers, aircraft manufacturers, engine manufacturers, pilot associations, regulatory authorities, transportation safety boards, and ICAO, and members from Canada, the European Union, France, Italy, Japan, the Netherlands, the United Kingdom, and the United States. CICTT is co-chaired by a representative from ICAO and a representative from CAST.
I knew there had to be a very bureaucratic document that defined the phases of flight.
Enjoy!
http://www.intlaviationstandards.org...efinitions.pdf
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Philip
RV-6A - 14+ years, 950+ hours
Based at 1H0 (Creve Coeur)
Paid dues yearly since 2007
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07-20-2015, 06:07 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Jackson Hole Wy
Posts: 57
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Factual is out for N820RV.
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07-20-2015, 06:25 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada
Posts: 353
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J.F.
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07-21-2015, 01:23 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Waukesha, Wisconsin
Posts: 554
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Safety of flight exception?
As one of Scroll's investigators at Air Combat Command and the AF Safety Center I have to agree with my former boss.
It is always frustrating when the accident board results conflict with what we found on the safety investigation. Just as it is frustrating to have first hand knowledge that is in conflict with accident board conclusions.
The standard should be to wait to discuss until the results are released.
The only exception we had to discuss prior to release of the public findings was in the case of a safety of flight issue. That is an issue that might cause consideration for grounding the fleet of aircraft, in which case waiting might cause the loss of additional life or airframe. It should be a very high threshold.
Respectfully submitted.
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