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  #1  
Old 03-26-2015, 08:36 PM
togaflyer togaflyer is offline
 
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Default Piper style door installation

Has anyone considered or previously looked into mounting the doors a different way. I was thinking how the door in my old Piper were set up. External hinges forward, secondary top latch at the top of the door edge. More traditional door swing. If you have knowledge how a Piper door is installed and operates, could this same method be applyed to the RV 10 doors with reasonable modifications.
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Old 03-26-2015, 08:42 PM
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1001001 1001001 is offline
 
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Really weird, I was thinking exactly the same thing thing today...whether anyone had considered trying to mount their doors "Cirrus style."
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  #3  
Old 03-26-2015, 08:46 PM
Kyle Boatright Kyle Boatright is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by togaflyer View Post
Has anyone considered or previously looked into mounting the doors a different way. I was thinking how the door in my old Piper were set up. External hinges forward, secondary top latch at the top of the door edge. More traditional door swing. If you have knowledge how a Piper door is installed and operates, could this same method be applyed to the RV 10 doors with reasonable modifications.
It has been discussed previously. As I recall, the challenging part is making sure you don't damage the roll-over structure when you attach the hinges.

On the Tomahawk, the doors have two front hinges, plus a top latch and an aft latch. I suspect the RV-10 with a front hinged door would require similar latches to pull everything tight and closed.
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  #4  
Old 03-27-2015, 04:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle Boatright View Post
It has been discussed previously. As I recall, the challenging part is making sure you don't damage the roll-over structure when you attach the hinges.

On the Tomahawk, the doors have two front hinges, plus a top latch and an aft latch. I suspect the RV-10 with a front hinged door would require similar latches to pull everything tight and closed.
I could see it needing two top latches and at least two on the rear. It might end up being so complex as to be impossible without weakening the structure unacceptably.
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Old 03-27-2015, 05:22 AM
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Auburntsts Auburntsts is offline
 
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Besides re-engineering the cabin top to accept forward hinges and maintain structural integrity (no small feat IMO), you also have to redesign the internal door structure as well to accept the hinges at a different location and a different locking mechanism. Not saying don't do it or that it can't be done, this is experimental aviation after all, just pointing out this is not a cosmetic change and would require significant effort to pull off.
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  #6  
Old 03-27-2015, 08:14 AM
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The Gull-Wing door is actually a great device, it's just hard to actually build it.

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Last edited by rv6rick : 03-27-2015 at 09:37 AM. Reason: Removed expletive
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  #7  
Old 03-27-2015, 08:26 PM
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Mike D Mike D is offline
 
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I have put some serious thought into this.

I have "re-engineered" my door frames and doors already, so I am somewhat committed to a non-standard config. But not ready to go public with the info just yet. But it is still a gull wing config.

The piper style doors have issues on pipers. So not sure I would copy them. They have two separate latches that don't nessissarly work that well. The piper door has flex issues due to the curvature and thin frame around the window. The RV-10 door frame shape is not such that it works well with two hinges at the front of the door. Also, one hinge would be in the fiberglass part and the other in the aluminum part. The positive is that if the piper doors do come unlatched in flight they will stay on.

The Cirrus doors have issues too. I have already gone toward this direction, but am not sure I will continue due to the issues Cirrus is having. Basically there are quite a few reports of doors coming unlatched in flight. The door stays on the plane, but everyone needs new underware.

The columbia door is nice. Take a look at the pilots side bottom skin and you will see the instructions on how to release the door incase of roll over. But this is very similar to the Vans design.

Honestly, the Vans design is looking better all the time. Why? Because if built correctly, it is quite safe. It should not open in flight unless you want it to, it was "not latched correctly", or there was a huge misalignment in the build. If you do want it off incase of emergency, open it in flight and it is gone.

I like the positive locking feature Vans design has. I like that I can look over and tell it is closed and latched. I just wish it was less "engineered looking" and more refined.

I can tell you from personal experience, redesigning the door is a huge undertaking in both time and money.

I would recommend to either keep it as is, or just do some minor modifications. But hey, this is experimental and everything can be done, but this is not a small job.
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  #8  
Old 03-28-2015, 07:05 AM
hudgin hudgin is offline
 
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The current Piper doors have a single latching system that moves two pins and the door latch into the locked position. The rear door on the PA 32 and 34's are all fiberglass.
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  #9  
Old 03-28-2015, 01:05 PM
togaflyer togaflyer is offline
 
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I had a Saratoga for a number of years and did not have an issue with the door, but I also understand how a redo on the Vans door could quickly become a nightmare. Is it possible to stiffen the entire door. To my understanding the inflight door failures on the RV 10 was due to the rear pin not hitting the latch, the door flexing out of the front pin, then the hinges failed and the door departed. Is it possbile to address the flex and hing concerns without adding another year to the build project.
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  #10  
Old 03-28-2015, 02:52 PM
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rleffler rleffler is offline
 
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For those building, just purchase and install planearound.com's safety latch. It solves 99.9% of all the latching issues. I believe that you'll be hard pressed to find a better solution.
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