VansAirForceForums  
Home > VansAirForceForums

- POSTING RULES
- Donate yearly (please).
- Advertise in here!

- Today's Posts | Insert Pics

  #11  
Old 03-27-2015, 08:03 PM
GTWreck GTWreck is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Locust Grove, GA
Posts: 97
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by marcumb View Post
Unless your safety pilot knows and will hold you to pts standards, it's negative training.
I couldn't agree more with this. In fact, my instructor held me to half the PTS limits during training (i.e. +/- 50 feet altitude, instead of +/- 100feet, etc). Once I got proficient at that, I was able to rock my check ride (the DPE even made a very positive comment at the end of the ride).

Whether it's you, your instructor, or the safety pilot with you, be sure to train to consistent standards. Going from being a VFR to IFR pilot is has a lot to do with precision.
__________________
Aaron Sims
RV-10 (2015 Bronze Lindy)
RV-6A (sold)
Home Field: Mallards Landing (GA04)
Locust Grove, GA
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 03-27-2015, 09:21 PM
Jesse's Avatar
Jesse Jesse is offline
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: X35 - Ocala, FL
Posts: 3,679
Default

Using a VFR plane to do hood time leaves me scratching my head. How can you learn to fly IFR without the equipment necessary? There are two main aspects of IFR flight. One is maintaining and changing attitude correctly, which cannot be done without Attitude information. The other is navigation, which cannot be done without navigation equipment. When you have both, you could consider yourself IFR equipped. Of course, you can navigate with a handheld GPS or an iPad, but that won't teach you what you need to know, so I will qualify my comment on navigation to include IFR navigation equipment (IFR GPS and/or NAV radio and a CDI display).

The first portion of my IFR training was learning to hold a course and altitude while maintaining good attitude, level standard rate turns, climbing straight and climbing turns, descending straight and descending turns. This can be done with just the flit instruments and not really any navigation equipment, but was just the first few hours of my training.

After that came navigation using VORs and GPS, but both driving a CDI or HSI needle. To do this you need flight instruments and IFR navigation instruments, which pretty much means you need to be IFR equipped. A simple EFIS like a Dynon D1 or a GRT Mini or TruTrak Gemini PFD can get you as much as a full six-pack of flight instruments. Navigation requires a source and a display. Again, most of the way, if not all of the way, to IFR equipped.

Trying to learn IFR without this equipment is likely going to be negative training.

On the written, you won't learn almost anything about talking to ATC and getting clearances and so on. You can learn a lot of this by simply listening to a frequency of ATC online, or by getting comfortable getting flight following. Talking to ATC can be very instructive vfr with no safety pilot. Getting comfortable talking on the radio officially VFR is the best way, IMHO, to preparing to do the same IFR.

The written test can be studied for using Sporty's Study Buddy or taking one of any number of IFR prep courses offered on disc or online.
__________________
Jesse Saint
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 03-27-2015, 09:23 PM
Maxrate Maxrate is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: League city, TX
Posts: 544
Default

Don,

The instrument rating is the most challenging and fun rating a pilot can aspire to IMO. Back when I instructed full time I saw students skill set improve dramatically as we trained for the rating.

First piece of advice I can offer is to train in what you will fly the check ride in. The art of scanning to control is a challenging skill to master. Having an aircraft that is stable like say a Cessna 172 is an added bonus to the learning process. Not that one can't acquire the skills in an RV but it will require greater concentration and time. Again just my oppinion based on experience.

Quote:
Can 25 (or more) hours be done flying a VFR equipped aircraft
Secondly, remember the CFRs are minimum requirements for legalities. Technically you could do all 25 hrs partial panel or practice unusual attitude recovery with a safety pilot on board but that's not going to help you develop the skill set needed to successfully pass the practical test.

Theoretically you would also want to (review) practice what you and your instructor covered in your lesson plan. The FAA allows for this practice to take place with a rated safety pilot. A definite cost saving measure.

Having a plan on what maneuvers, approaches and procedures you'll fly each time you go up to practice will ensure success in the least amount of time. The right aircraft with the minimum IFR equiptment, coupled with a good CFII and a safety pilot on board as you practice is the right formula for success. A complex or extremely challenging aircraft that is poorly equipped for IFR flight and poor training will most likely set you up for a frustrating experience. I had one student that brought me his Beech Baron to train for the instrument rating in and needless to say it was a long frustrating process. We did zip around for another approach attempt pretty quickly though .

Developing the skills to precisely control your aircraft will be a fun and rewarding experience!
Good luck to you. Mark CFIAIM
__________________
Mark Malone, RV7
Wings complete, SB 14 complied with, canopy and cowling in progress, Up on the gear.
N442MM reserved
http://www.mykitlog.com/MikeMike

2020 Donation gladly paid..

Last edited by Maxrate : 03-27-2015 at 09:28 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 03-27-2015, 11:03 PM
BobTurner BobTurner is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Livermore, CA
Posts: 6,797
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxrate View Post
First piece of advice I can offer is to train in what you will fly the check ride in. The art of scanning to control is a challenging skill to master. Having an aircraft that is stable like say a Cessna 172 is an added bonus to the learning process. Not that one can't acquire the skills in an RV but it will require greater concentration and time. Again just my oppinion based on experience.
M
The goal should be being a safe instrument pilot in the plane you are flying. Not just passing the test.
If you own a suitably equipped RV you could:

1. Rent a 172, get the rating. Then transition to your RV. Do not gloss this over, going from a slow, stable, 6 pack to a fast, maneuverable, efis, is not trivial.
OR
2. Train in the RV.

I'd say option 1 is a little quicker; option 2 cheaper. Of course, change 'RV' to 'Baron' and it's a different story!
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 03-27-2015, 11:37 PM
xblueh2o xblueh2o is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: SF East Bay
Posts: 852
Default

Make sure the safety pilot understands that their job is to watch for traffic, not your progress.
__________________
Sam
RV-8 with the Showplanes Fastback conversion
Emp completed except for glass work
Wings completed except for bottom skin and glass work
Fuselage underway
N18451 reserved
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 03-28-2015, 02:44 PM
dsmith1055's Avatar
dsmith1055 dsmith1055 is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Memphis TN area
Posts: 77
Default

Don,
Get a good syllabus & follow it. It keeps you & your instructor on track & allows for a change of instructors with a minimum of confusion. It also allows you to prepare in advance for the next lesson and helps resolve questions on the ground before getting in the plane. You can cut costs by first learning on a computer simulator & then going to the plane to refine things. Expect to pay the instructor for the computer time, but you can cut the cost of airplane rental. An airplane cockpit is a poor classroom. Try to learn on computer & review & refine in the cockpit. Strive to train 3 days a week. The more often you train the quicker you will learn. Set a schedule that suits you without regard for WX & adjust as necessary. After a few lessons you should be able to train In IMC.

It has also been my experience that students who have passed the written before beginning training progress much faster which translates to cheaper.
Good luck with your training.
__________________
Dwight Smith CFI
Flight Advisor - Tech Counselor
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:31 AM.


The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.