Approaching Aerobatics

[JonJay]

Aerobatics by Neil Williams is another must have resource.

[BillL]

A little sideways on this thread - - since in Phase I it is necessary to demonstrate all the aerobatic maneuvers to establish envelope for operation in PhaseII, what did you guys do to comply with that element?

Did you slop through it ( I am not thrilled about this), or get an experienced RV pilot to perform that for you? Or other clever method?

[JonJay]

Originally Posted by BillL

A little sideways on this thread - - since in Phase I it is necessary to demonstrate all the aerobatic maneuvers to establish envelope for operation in PhaseII, what did you guys do to comply with that element?

Did you slop through it ( I am not thrilled about this), or get an experienced RV pilot to perform that for you? Or other clever method?

Excellent question. There are CFI's that will do aerobatic training in their own RV. I was relatively advanced already and only intended to do basic maneuvers in mine so it was easy to fly them and document it. Spins, Loops, Rolls, etc....

I would like to add another question. If someone wants to add maneuvers, can you simply put it back into phase one for one flight, demonstrate it solo, document it, and put it right back into phase II?

[sandifer]

Originally Posted by JonJay

Aerobatics by Neil Williams is another must have resource.

That book is out of print, and I found it more of an interesting read from a perspective of aerobatic history. It is very wordy, and there is not a lot of "meat" when it comes to descriptions of flying technique. For someone simply looking for a book to help with flying technique, I would not go to the trouble of finding a used copy of this book. For someone interested in precision acro, the devil is in the details, and this book would leave a lot of questions for the newbie pilot working through technique. Cassidy's book leaves few questions. But for the acro nut, the Neil Williams book is worth having for other reasons.

For someone who wants a good book and VERY simple and short, to the point reading, Bill Thomas' books, 'Fly for Fun', and 'Fly for Fun to Win' are good.

[kinger]

Originally Posted by sandifer

That book is out of print, and I found it more of an interesting read from a perspective of aerobatic history. It is very wordy, and there is not a lot of "meat" when it comes to descriptions of flying technique. For someone simply looking for a book to help with flying technique, I would not go to the trouble of finding a used copy of this book. For someone interested in precision acro, the devil is in the details, and this book would leave a lot of questions for the newbie pilot working through technique. Cassidy's book leaves few questions. But for the acro nut, the Neil Williams book is worth having for other reasons.

For someone who wants a good book and VERY simple and short, to the point reading, Bill Thomas' books, 'Fly for Fun', and 'Fly for Fun to Win' are good.

Not endorsing the book, but for someone who wants one..... .99 +3.99 s/h is not that bad of a deal.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/031...d=AQ9ZI13TADZM

[JonJay]

Originally Posted by sandifer

That book is out of print, and I found it more of an interesting read from a perspective of aerobatic history. It is very wordy, and there is not a lot of "meat" when it comes to descriptions of flying technique. For someone simply looking for a book to help with flying technique, I would not go to the trouble of finding a used copy of this book. For someone interested in precision acro, the devil is in the details, and this book would leave a lot of questions for the newbie pilot working through technique. Cassidy's book leaves few questions. But for the acro nut, the Neil Williams book is worth having for other reasons.

For someone who wants a good book and VERY simple and short, to the point reading, Bill Thomas' books, 'Fly for Fun', and 'Fly for Fun to Win' are good.

You would certainly know better than I and I respect that. I found it very enjoyable to read, but yes, the manner in which it is written doesn't walk you through the nuances of every input. However, I enjoyed that too. As an example, you can walk someone through every single control input of a slow roll, but it takes a good "feel" of your specific machine to execute the subtleties it takes to successfully complete a good one. (rare for me). There where a few other things in the book that led me to aha moments as well. But alas, I am just a novice and my experience pales to yours.
As a newbie, I would get my hands on every resource I could....

[Vac]

Bill and Jon,

The key to your questions may lie in the wording of your operating limitations and how you want to apply them. Testing and documenting aerobatic maneuvers is not a major modification, so your operating limits may allow you to place the aircraft into Phase I, complete testing of the maneuvers and appropriately documenting that in the aircraft log. You may then place the aircraft back into Phase II and perform those maneuvers during your normal flying (IAW applicable FAR aerobatic/parachute use restrictions, etc.).

If you wish, you can have someone perform testing on your behalf, complete the appropriate documentation and move on from there. If, however, you are testing your own airplane, you can always go back at a later date and complete testing after you have the appropriate training, experience and confidence in your airplane, using the procedures above. The Additional Pilot Program (AC 90-116) may also offer some other options if weight and balance considerations allow.

If, for some reason, you have older operating limitations, you have the option of amending them, either via FSDO or DAR. After they have been amended, then appropriate testing and documentation can be accomplished.

Fly safe,

Vac

[Vac]

Part 3 of the Transition Training Syllabus in the sticky at the top of this page contains all of the aerobatic information I have been able to cull from Van's writing (including the information referenced in this thread), flight test experience with my own RV-4, lessons learned from flight instruction experience in other folks RV's, collaboration with test pilots that have RV experience and appropriate information available on this site. This info is in the sections titled "maneuvering flight," "confidence maneuvers" and "advanced handling". The information is RV-specific to the extent that is practical (there are some differences between RV types and ultimately, each airplane is unique and handling characteristics may vary). I've attempted to be as thorough and correct as possible in compiling, flight testing and presenting this information. There is some difference in terms, but the intent is to provide a community resource to help folks that are interested be able to safely operate RV-types throughout the envelope (as well as how to handle excursions out of the envelope). The "Advanced Handling Briefing" in appendix B and the rules of thumb presented in appendix C represent a "reader's digest" version of the information that is contained in Part 3.

I found Cassidy's book as well as William Kerscher's books to be great reference resources as well as the classic Air Force publications availlable in Van Sickle's Modern Airmanship edited by John Welch.

As the thread in the sticky states, this is a work in progress--I'm learning something new all of the time. It also contains an offer to provide anyone interested with a pdf or Word version of the draft, just drop a line or PM.

Fly Safe,

Vac