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03-22-2015, 05:06 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Sausalito, CA
Posts: 325
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Near-miss (or hit) with RV in the Denver area
Yesterday I flew my son and two of his college classmates from Denver Centennial to Greeley in my Mooney. On the return flight home I had quite a scare when an RV suddenly appeared in my windscreen, seemingly out of nowhere. We both had to take evasive action to avoid a collision; I'm guessing we were less than 500 feet apart, going opposite directions.
I was under VFR flight following with Denver Approach at the time, as is my custom. I notified the controller and he said he had no targets in my vicinity. My Mooney is equipped with Honeywell TCAS that paints bogeys on the G1000 moving map, and the RV didn't show up there, either. The way my TCAS works, if your transponder is on and you're close enough to me, it will see you.
The approach controller and I concluded that the RV's transponder was either not on or not working. This occurred well within the 30NM transponder veil for the Denver class B, so obviously a transponder was required.
Safety lessons from this event:
1. The area where this occurred is near the following airports: Longmont, Erie, Fort Collins and Greeley. All are uncontrolled fields. If you're departing an uncontrolled field, be sure to check your transponder during your preflight routine!
2. In 30 years of flying I've had two near misses, both while under radar surveillance (the first was when I was IFR in VMC; yesterday's was when I was VFR). Don't become complacent about other traffic, even if you're getting flight following. Fortunately I always keep my head on a swivel and was able to avoid disaster yesterday, but it never ceases to amaze me how difficult it is to see other aircraft and how rapidly we close on one another. This flight occurred midday, when it's especially difficult to see other aircraft.
Stay safe, my friends.
__________________
Joe Zuffoletto
RV-8 (flying)
Fullerton, CA (KFUL)
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03-22-2015, 06:00 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 1,565
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Thanks for sharing!
As you know, a transponder isn't required within the 30nm veil if the aircraft doesn't have an electrical system. I know of at least one such aircraft in the vicinity of the KMSP class B ring, so they're definitely out there.
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Brad Benson, Maplewood MN.
RV-6A N164BL, Flying since Nov 2012!
If you're not making mistakes, you're probably not making anything
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03-22-2015, 06:14 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Sausalito, CA
Posts: 325
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Brad, I forgot about that exemption but you're absolutely right. One more reason not to trust FF and TCAS. Thanks for reminding me.
Just to be clear, I'm not accusing the RV pilot of wrongdoing. I just wanted to share my experience for everyone's knowledge and benefit.
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Joe Zuffoletto
RV-8 (flying)
Fullerton, CA (KFUL)
Last edited by colojo : 03-22-2015 at 06:19 PM.
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03-22-2015, 07:49 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: colorado
Posts: 873
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busy area
I operate in that area with my RV4 often and it is a busy corridor. technology is a great tool but pilots tend to glue their eyeballs to all the fancy EFIS screens. Searching and seeing other aircraft is a skill to be learned and to see those airplanes one has to look out the windows.. This subject has come up often but I challenge everyone to self assess the amount of time you spend with your eyes inside....
CM
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RV-4 "Mr. Twister"
Pitts S1S "Mexican Red" sold and missed
Mr. Twister Airshows
Rocky Mountain Renegades
the mission... have fun.
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03-22-2015, 07:51 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dallas area
Posts: 10,768
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I don't believe that flight following is responsible for traffic advisories.
__________________
Mel Asberry, DAR since the last century.
EAA Flight Advisor/Tech Counselor, Friend of the RV-1
Recipient of Tony Bingelis Award and Wright Brothers Master Pilot Award
USAF Vet, High School E-LSA Project Mentor.
RV-6 Flying since 1993 (sold)
<rvmel(at)icloud.com>
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03-23-2015, 07:15 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 08A
Posts: 9,500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colojo
I'm guessing we were less than 500 feet apart, going opposite directions.
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500 feet. 1.66 football fields. About a 1/10 mile. Is that really a near miss, or just two VFR airplanes at a perfectly reasonable passing distance?
You were doing exactly what a good pilot should be doing...looking out the window when VFR, and maneuvering as necessary.
I'm gonna go drive my truck now. Between here and the office I'm pretty sure a few dozen cars will miss hitting me head-on by less than 5 feet.
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Dan Horton
RV-8 SS
Barrett IO-390
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03-23-2015, 07:36 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: New Ulm, Minnesota
Posts: 283
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Transponder on?
This near miss is why I have put in ADS-B out so other can see me. One time I took off out of KAPA and forgot to turn on my transponder but the tower was quick to tell me that my transponder was not working, so I quickly turned it on! Oops...
I try to follow my pre-take off check list carefully and now I even double check it to make sure I turn the transponder from ground to altitude and all the stuff it right before I push the throttle forward. 
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Robin Mckee
New Ulm, MN 56073
RV3b N219BB
420 hours and counting
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03-23-2015, 12:35 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanH
500 feet. 1.66 football fields. About a 1/10 mile. Is that really a near miss, or just two VFR airplanes at a perfectly reasonable passing distance?
You were doing exactly what a good pilot should be doing...looking out the window when VFR, and maneuvering as necessary.
I'm gonna go drive my truck now. Between here and the office I'm pretty sure a few dozen cars will miss hitting me head-on by less than 5 feet.
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500 feet goes by pretty quickly when two airplanes are unknowingly converging head-on at 300+ mph. That certainly would've made me uncomfortable.
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RV-7 builder
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03-23-2015, 01:05 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RV3bpilot
This near miss is why I have put in ADS-B out so other can see me.
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This won't help unless the other plane has either ADSB-In or a TCAS with ability to read and interpret ADSB messages.
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03-23-2015, 01:06 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Sutter Creek, CA
Posts: 842
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What was the....
Vertical separation? Two aircraft cruising at an altitude above 3000 AGL should have had at least 1000' vertical separation. Were you at cruise?
__________________
Mark Ohlau
RV-6 N506MM VAF #1410
2017 Donation Made
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