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03-18-2015, 10:54 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hubbard Oregon
Posts: 9,035
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Tim,
I hope that you can agree, that there are some significant differences when comparing an RV-10 kit to the RV-14 kit?
The level of difference is at least some of the time line issue.
A major challenge at Van's over the years as kit have been refined to a higher level of build simplicity is very much a catch-22.
The development time it takes to make the kit more complete and easier to build has gotten longer with each level of improvement, but it takes much less time for customers to build them.
When I built my first RV-6A years ago, the time frame from when the emp. kit was first offered for sale to when the tail dragger finish kit was available was I believe almost 3 years. That was for a very basic kit when compared to what is offered now (parts supplied and construction manual). At the time, it wasn't a big deal because the majority of people took at least that long to complete each section (the build wasn't nearly as quick).
Compare that to the RV-12 kit (the most recent "complete" kit that has been offered) which took about the same time frame to get 6 kit sections out, and to a very high refinement level compared to the RV-6.
__________________
Opinions, information and comments are my own unless stated otherwise. They do not necessarily represent the direction/opinions of my employer.
Scott McDaniels
Van's Aircraft Engineering Prototype Shop Manager
Hubbard, Oregon
RV-6A (aka "Junkyard Special ")
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03-18-2015, 03:04 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: berrien center, mi
Posts: 16
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Differences?
The differences between the Rv-10 and RV-14 are not what's causing the delays. The RV-14 prototype was designed and built in the shop and then engineering had to develop a production model from that which customers could actually build. Thus when I was told at Airventure 2012 that all kits would be available by the end of 2013 or soon thereafter, I was depending on Vans Aircraft prior record of dependability when I placed the order for the wing kit the day it was offered. My bad. It is what it is, but it's past time for someone at the mothership to step up and push this to completion. Build it and they will come. And they did.
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03-18-2015, 03:27 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hubbard Oregon
Posts: 9,035
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drillr1
The RV-14 prototype was designed and built in the shop and then engineering had to develop a production model from that which customers could actually build.
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This is totally not correct.
The very first built prototype (N214VA) was built using all computer designed and modeled parts, made on production tooling.
Any parts shipped in customer kits that had not been revised after that prototype had been built, are exactly the same as the parts in that airplane.
__________________
Opinions, information and comments are my own unless stated otherwise. They do not necessarily represent the direction/opinions of my employer.
Scott McDaniels
Van's Aircraft Engineering Prototype Shop Manager
Hubbard, Oregon
RV-6A (aka "Junkyard Special ")
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03-18-2015, 03:35 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: berrien center, mi
Posts: 16
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Uh oh.
If you're correct it shouldn't have taken as long as it did to get the kits into production. There are plenty of us that have been in manufacturing to know. I am just perplexed why all the defensiveness.
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03-18-2015, 08:47 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hubbard Oregon
Posts: 9,035
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Hmmmmm
And I am perplexed as to why you would consider correcting you, when you have posted totally incorrect information, being defensive.
If you are actually referring some of my other posts, I think all I have done is provide some factual info.
But how about if we spin this around a bit. You imply you have a background in manufacturing. If that included developing the concept, doing the complete design, tool up for production and coordinate lots of different vendors, and produce many of the parts, then you probably already know that things don't always go as planned.
Whether you agree or disagree, I leave you with some questions.
Do you really think the people involved with the development and production of the RV-14 kit are dragging this out longer than you think it should be, on purpose?
Do you think that they don't have an interest in getting the kits to you as soon as possible?
Do you know any reason that the company benefits from not getting them out quickly?
I will answer for you.
The answer to all questions is No!
I spend countless hours of my own personal time on this forum in an attempt to stop false information from spreading, and to try and help people out. Then someone like you steps up. You have 6 total posts in the forum, with none of them contributing anything other than negativity and complaints. That is of course you right... Freedom of speech and all that.
Certainly makes me reevaluate why I bother......
__________________
Opinions, information and comments are my own unless stated otherwise. They do not necessarily represent the direction/opinions of my employer.
Scott McDaniels
Van's Aircraft Engineering Prototype Shop Manager
Hubbard, Oregon
RV-6A (aka "Junkyard Special ")
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03-18-2015, 09:52 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: berrien center, mi
Posts: 16
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That certainly is a long list of tasks required to get a kit into production. By the way, I do read many of your replies to members requests for help and advice. Keep up the good work. We used to get occasional updates by press releases from the mothership. Now we get information through the rumor mill on this site. Apparently I've struck a sore nerve and no more uselful information on release dates for these kits will be forthcoming from the factory. So, do I complain? Yer darn right I do. Stems from the sympathy comments I get from vendors and builders of other RV models when they find out I'm building a RV-14.
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03-18-2015, 10:01 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Bishop, CA
Posts: 15
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rvbuilder2002, in my opinion you are one of the people who really make this forum what it is, and your input has tremendous value, so let me thank you for your time and posts. I'm certain that I'm not the only one to feel that way either.
For those of us 14 builders who are going to be building the kit as it was designed and marketed, I'm glad that the work is being done to make sure everything is well integrated, tell the engineers thanks. It's better to be correct but late rather than early and screwed up. My understanding is that originally there was not going to be a tail dragger version, and that much of the delay has been the design and testing of it. Is that accurate?
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03-18-2015, 10:28 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hubbard Oregon
Posts: 9,035
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick K
rvbuilder2002, in my opinion you are one of the people who really make this forum what it is, and your input has tremendous value, so let me thank you for your time and posts. I'm certain that I'm not the only one to feel that way either.
For those of us 14 builders who are going to be building the kit as it was designed and marketed, I'm glad that the work is being done to make sure everything is well integrated, tell the engineers thanks. It's better to be correct but late rather than early and screwed up. My understanding is that originally there was not going to be a tail dragger version, and that much of the delay has been the design and testing of it. Is that accurate?
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That is just one of many factors that all added together have cause a longer delay than anyone would have imagined.
__________________
Opinions, information and comments are my own unless stated otherwise. They do not necessarily represent the direction/opinions of my employer.
Scott McDaniels
Van's Aircraft Engineering Prototype Shop Manager
Hubbard, Oregon
RV-6A (aka "Junkyard Special ")
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03-18-2015, 10:48 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Omaha, NE (KMLE)
Posts: 2,247
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::shrug:: It could be worse, you know. At least there's not a dependency on a 6-cylinder Pmag.
I kid, and it's frustrating to be in the position some of you are in, but delays happen. Anyone who's gone all the way from bright (or at least well meaning) idea to delivered product knows that schedules usually don't survive a brush with reality unscathed.
Put another way, if companies with the kind of project planning and financial resources that Boeing and Airbus have can't accurately predict delivery schedules, why would we be surprised when Van's misses a target date?
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Dale
Omaha, NE
RV-12 # 222 N980KM "Screamin' Canary" (bought flying)
Fisher Celebrity (under construction)
Previous RV-7 project (sold)
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03-19-2015, 04:15 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Yarmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 2,408
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Certainly makes me reevaluate why I bother......[/quote]
I was just thinking it was time for someone to lock out this post before it got to this.
Scott, we (the builders)will get over this, stick in there. We do really appreciate your help.
Ron
__________________
Thanks Ron
RV-10 SOLD
RV-14 Flying
AirCam flying
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