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  #11  
Old 02-26-2015, 09:42 PM
BSwayze's Avatar
BSwayze BSwayze is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Molalla, Oregon
Posts: 955
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Stephen, I'm over on the east side, but I would welcome a visit to my shop as well if you'd be interested. I'm building a 7A and I'm in the final stages. I can share a lot of experience, answer a lot of questions, talk about tools, etc. I'm just off of I-205 about 10 min. south of PDX. I live about 25 min. from Vans. I'm at most of the chapter 105 breakfasts. Hope to meet you!
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RV-7A Standard Build
First flight November 3, 2019!
http://www.BrucesRV7A.com
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  #12  
Old 02-27-2015, 01:52 PM
blueisthenewblack blueisthenewblack is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BSwayze View Post
Stephen, I'm over on the east side, but I would welcome a visit to my shop as well if you'd be interested. I'm building a 7A and I'm in the final stages. I can share a lot of experience, answer a lot of questions, talk about tools, etc. I'm just off of I-205 about 10 min. south of PDX. I live about 25 min. from Vans. I'm at most of the chapter 105 breakfasts. Hope to meet you!
Hey Bruce! I think we actually met at one of the EAA 105 breakfasts just after New Year's. We were both on kitchen duty cooking eggs and washing dishes as I recall . I'm the tall blonde guy with long hair. I didn't get a chance to get your contact information that day and realized it as soon as I got home, but I'm glad we've reconnected. I'll send you a PM. Thanks!!!!
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  #13  
Old 03-01-2015, 09:47 PM
blueisthenewblack blueisthenewblack is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 12
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Huge thanks to BruceS. and Brenden for letting me check out your shops and planes today. I learned a lot and have more confidence of taking on an RV.

I started crunching numbers more this weekend and I really don't think the RV-14A is for me based on the price. Plus BruceS let me spend a good amount of time sitting in his 7A and space wasn't an issue at all even with my 6'2" height. On the 14A, I like the idea of extra room, the new landing gear design, the newest plans format, the fact that it builds faster/easier with new manufacturing techniques for part alignment, the built-in wiring harnesses, and just knowing that I'm working with the latest design and engineering. But I can't justify the large price increase on the engine and prop alone. A 7A with a 180HP engine, fixed prop will fulfill my needs just fine. And like Brenden said, you can just go and get a emp. kit for the 7A for $1,800 from Vans and get started, so it's less of an entry cost than a 14A.

I know that some things could be cut from below (more basic panel, do-it-yourself paint, etc.) but I was trying to use conservative estimates.

Code:
                 RV-7A FP 180HP  RV-14A CS 210HP
Practice kits    $70             $70    
Tools            $2,000          $2,000    
Build class      $150            $150    
Emp              $1,780          $4,010    
Wing             $7,180          $7,675    
Fuselage         $7,055          $9,795    
Finishing        $7,020          $10,000    
Engine           $25,000         $43,000    
Prop             $3,380          $12,000    
Prop gov         n/a             $1,400    
Firewall fwd     $4,800          $4,800    
Panel/avionics   $12,000         $12,000    
Lights           $1,140          $1,140    
Elec. system     $1,000          $1,000    
Cushions/harn    $900            $900    
Paint            $6,000          $6,000    
Misc.            $1,000          $1,000    
Shop rental      $3,600          $3,600    
TOTAL            $84,075         $120,540
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  #14  
Old 03-03-2015, 08:50 PM
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rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hubbard Oregon
Posts: 9,035
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blueisthenewblack View Post
Huge thanks to BruceS. and Brenden for letting me check out your shops and planes today. I learned a lot and have more confidence of taking on an RV.

I started crunching numbers more this weekend and I really don't think the RV-14A is for me based on the price. Plus BruceS let me spend a good amount of time sitting in his 7A and space wasn't an issue at all even with my 6'2" height. On the 14A, I like the idea of extra room, the new landing gear design, the newest plans format, the fact that it builds faster/easier with new manufacturing techniques for part alignment, the built-in wiring harnesses, and just knowing that I'm working with the latest design and engineering. But I can't justify the large price increase on the engine and prop alone. A 7A with a 180HP engine, fixed prop will fulfill my needs just fine. And like Brenden said, you can just go and get a emp. kit for the 7A for $1,800 from Vans and get started, so it's less of an entry cost than a 14A.

I know that some things could be cut from below (more basic panel, do-it-yourself paint, etc.) but I was trying to use conservative estimates.

Code:
                 RV-7A FP 180HP  RV-14A CS 210HP
Practice kits    $70             $70    
Tools            $2,000          $2,000    
Build class      $150            $150    
Emp              $1,780          $4,010    
Wing             $7,180          $7,675    
Fuselage         $7,055          $9,795    
Finishing        $7,020          $10,000    
Engine           $25,000         $43,000    
Prop             $3,380          $12,000    
Prop gov         n/a             $1,400    
Firewall fwd     $4,800          $4,800    
Panel/avionics   $12,000         $12,000    
Lights           $1,140          $1,140    
Elec. system     $1,000          $1,000    
Cushions/harn    $900            $900    
Paint            $6,000          $6,000    
Misc.            $1,000          $1,000    
Shop rental      $3,600          $3,600    
TOTAL            $84,075         $120,540
I wont try and tell you that an RV-14A can be completed for the same price as an RV-7A (because it can't), but I am not sure what you are basing some of your pricing information on.

The propeller you are listing for the 7A is a fixed pitch and the one you are listing for the 14A is a composite constant speed... not really a direct comparison. Very few RV's are flying with the composite constant speed. In reality, you could put a fixed pitch prop on the RV-14A also, and suffer the exact same loss of utility that you will with a fixed pitch on the 7A (less baggage payload because of C.G., etc.).
So to make a fair comparison.... the exact same constant speed prop can ( and what most people do use) be used on both airplanes, so that would negate any price difference of the prop, gov., etc.
I think you are also high on the engine price for the 14A. I believe IO390's are being made available at OEM prices below what the 200 HP engine sells for, and they are currently priced at $40,700.

So if you compared two similarly equipped airplanes but the different engines, I think the prices would be a little closer to...

RV-7A - $89,000
RV-14A - $111,000
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Opinions, information and comments are my own unless stated otherwise. They do not necessarily represent the direction/opinions of my employer.

Scott McDaniels
Van's Aircraft Engineering Prototype Shop Manager
Hubbard, Oregon
RV-6A (aka "Junkyard Special ")

Last edited by rvbuilder2002 : 03-03-2015 at 08:53 PM.
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  #15  
Old 03-03-2015, 11:25 PM
blueisthenewblack blueisthenewblack is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rvbuilder2002 View Post
I wont try and tell you that an RV-14A can be completed for the same price as an RV-7A (because it can't), but I am not sure what you are basing some of your pricing information on.

The propeller you are listing for the 7A is a fixed pitch and the one you are listing for the 14A is a composite constant speed... not really a direct comparison. Very few RV's are flying with the composite constant speed. In reality, you could put a fixed pitch prop on the RV-14A also, and suffer the exact same loss of utility that you will with a fixed pitch on the 7A (less baggage payload because of C.G., etc.).
So to make a fair comparison.... the exact same constant speed prop can ( and what most people do use) be used on both airplanes, so that would negate any price difference of the prop, gov., etc.
I think you are also high on the engine price for the 14A. I believe IO390's are being made available at OEM prices below what the 200 HP engine sells for, and they are currently priced at $40,700.

So if you compared two similarly equipped airplanes but the different engines, I think the prices would be a little closer to...

RV-7A - $89,000
RV-14A - $111,000
Thank you for the feedback! I didn't know the IO-390 could be used with a fixed-pitch prop, that's good info. I got the ~$43,000 estimate from here:
http://gnaircraft.com/wp-content/upl...-GNX-Flyer.pdf

I later found that Van's was showing a lower price of $36,300 here:
http://www.vansaircraft.com/images/o...13-special.pdf

But this was on special with the prop (a great deal).

Thanks for pointing out the difference on the prop too - looks like the composite wasn't the "standard" choice.
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