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  #11  
Old 01-07-2007, 03:01 AM
jcoloccia jcoloccia is offline
 
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Default

How about open wheel pants, like fenders? You can think of them as just the inboard half of the wheel pants. That'll leave the landing gear and front of the tire faired, but the outboard part of the tires would be left alone. I'm thinking this would give at least some drag reduction but minimizes the chances of getting anything caught in there. Also, most of the wheel pant is facing in so no one will notice if it gets chewed up.

You can finish it off by sticking a hubcap on the wheels.

Okay, okay...it's a whacky idea but this isn't called "experimental" for nothing, ya' know.
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  #12  
Old 01-07-2007, 05:29 AM
NYTOM NYTOM is offline
 
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Location: Raleigh, North Carolina
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Wink Undercoating

Paul's suggestion of undercoating reminded of a product I bought a few years ago to protect the lower panels of a very expensive car I had no business of owning. Running on gravel roads would leave paint chips behind the tires where the body curved underneath. To solve this problem I lightly wet sanded the affected surface and masked off any untreated areas. Then the "stuff" was applied just like spray paint. It came in a over sized can and after drying left a thin transparent coating that had a satin finish. It was extremely tough and flexible and the stones just bounced off it. From a few feet away it was invisible. As I recall it was called "Chip Guard" or something "Guard". Might help on the rear bottom of the pants behind the tire opening. Just another rough idea.
Tom
RV-6A N822PM (res)
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  #13  
Old 01-07-2007, 06:05 AM
Captain Avgas Captain Avgas is offline
 
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Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteinAir
I was scared @#%$, but in the end no ground loop...just a messed up pant. Cheers,
Stein.
Stein, was that a messed up pant...or messed up pants.
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  #14  
Old 01-07-2007, 06:25 AM
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Ironflight Ironflight is offline
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Location: Dayton, NV
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Default Aluminum Doubler?

Great ideas guys!

Has anyone tried an aluminum doubler plate riveted to the fiberglass to strengthen the opening? Especially around the rear? I agree that is where the pants seem to get torn up first - the tire kicks or lifts something into th opening and rips up the glass. How about reinforcing it with metal? Maybe that's what the scraper thoughts are really about....

I've "been there, done that" on tearing up a pant do to close tolerances and a blown tire (as many others have...) during phase 1. Fortunately, it was still in primer, and a couple of hours glass work fixed it up. Now with the really nice paint, I'd hate to have to have Grady re-do them...

Paul
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RV-8 - N188PD - "Valkyrie"
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  #15  
Old 01-07-2007, 06:32 AM
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dan dan is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironflight
Has anyone tried an aluminum doubler plate riveted to the fiberglass to strengthen the opening? Especially around the rear? I agree that is where the pants seem to get torn up first - the tire kicks or lifts something into th opening and rips up the glass. How about reinforcing it with metal? Maybe that's what the scraper thoughts are really about....
Imho, adding any reinforcement to this area is just going to cause a LARGER area to break when it breaks.
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  #16  
Old 01-07-2007, 07:56 AM
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Nuisance Nuisance is offline
 
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C'mon fellers

Airplanes are designed as a system. If you want to fly into and land on rough fields, think about the whole system.

Change the wheel pants.
Bigger wheels and tires.
Stronger axles. (don't just shim them to size)
Stronger gear legs.
Stronger gear boxes to hold the gear legs.
Beef up skin thicknesses around the gear boxes.
Thicker tail wheel spring, bigger tire, axle, fork.
Beef up the mounting for the tail wheel spring.

Then, think about...
The effect of all that banging on the rest of the fuselage, wing mountings.
Stones etc. hitting your tail feathers.

After you do all that, how much does your airplane weigh?

There are super cub kits out there. They are designed as a system for rough fields.
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  #17  
Old 01-07-2007, 08:25 AM
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Ironflight Ironflight is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dan
Imho, adding any reinforcement to this area is just going to cause a LARGER area to break when it breaks.
I thought about that later Dan - you could very well be right. My old Grumman pants (plastic, if I recall) had been patched and reinforced several times with aluminum - and they always started cracking again right at the edges of the aluminum patches - just created stress risers....

OK, so maybe we open up the rear opening all the way to the bulkhead?

Of course, I agree with Nuisance that if you're gonna do gravel strips all the time, why not have the right airplane? Jay Pratt let me fly "Shooter", his Tundra-tired Northstar (experimental Cub-type airplane). Those monster cartoon tires were the best - absorbed what would have been a bounced landing and could probably roll over coconut-sized rocks!

Paul
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  #18  
Old 01-07-2007, 08:52 AM
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Bob Martin Bob Martin is offline
 
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Location: Charlottesville, Virginia
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Default Wheel Pants

Paul,
Look to Vans for the answer!
I was fortunate to be able to buy an already flying RV-6.
Then proceeded to upgrade it to the newer pants and leg fairing.
The original design sits higher on the wheel and isn't designed too tight either.
I don't think the -8 had the older design but I bet there are lots of guys around your area with the original design sitting on the shelf like I do.
Remember Van was a grass field kinda guy before the masses pushed him into thinking about speed.
Just a thought!
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  #19  
Old 01-07-2007, 11:32 AM
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osxuser osxuser is offline
 
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Location: Pasadena CA
Posts: 2,484
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuisance
C'mon fellers

Airplanes are designed as a system. If you want to fly into and land on rough fields, think about the whole system.

Change the wheel pants.
Bigger wheels and tires.
Stronger axles. (don't just shim them to size)
Stronger gear legs.
Stronger gear boxes to hold the gear legs.
Beef up skin thicknesses around the gear boxes.
Thicker tail wheel spring, bigger tire, axle, fork.
Beef up the mounting for the tail wheel spring.

Then, think about...
The effect of all that banging on the rest of the fuselage, wing mountings.
Stones etc. hitting your tail feathers.

After you do all that, how much does your airplane weigh?

There are super cub kits out there. They are designed as a system for rough fields.
Rough fields are relative. I don't think that 5.00x5 tires are adaquate for the mains for anything but hard surface, and maybe groomed turf. The system that the TD RV's used (Except the -8) is pretty good as it is, I'd be planning on 6.00x6, which aren't that much heavier with the 5.00x5 (but they definitly are heavier). The gear legs might have to be beefier, and i'd be going with normal 6.00x6 axles (Which are stronger). The gear goes into the engine mount, not a gear box. Then I'll have a set of well fit wheelpants and a set of deflectors so if I go onto gravel, I give up the speed, and keep from damaging the stabs and flaps.

RV is the jack-of-all-trades airplane. I don't want to go Supercub speeds... I'd just fly my dads C177.
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  #20  
Old 01-07-2007, 12:11 PM
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N941WR N941WR is offline
 
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Default Here's an idea...

Why not take the RV-9 wing, add a strut, build the -9 empennage, and bolt it to the top of a -9 fuselage?

Maybe add a 2nd row of sets and an O-360.

Hello Van's, are you listening?

It might be appropriately called an RV-13
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