ADS-B Made Simple

[Mike S]

Bill, I have an ADS600-B and am wondering if I still need to use the supplied GPS puck antenna if I also have a certified GPS source (GTN 650) available to supply position info.

Thanks,

[Bill Moffitt]

Hello Mike,

The Garmin series navigators are not currently on our STC - Garmin won't release the protocol (as they normally do with all of the other interfaces).

So until they do, or we reverse-engineer the interface, you should keep the setup you have.

[shuttle]

Thought you might find it interesting to know that in the UK there is an official trial about to start on the use of uncertified GPS as a position source for ADS-B Out.

http://services.lightaircraftassocia...php?f=5&t=4419

[Mike S]

Originally Posted by Bill Moffitt

Hello Mike,

The Garmin series navigators are not currently on our STC - Garmin won't release the protocol (as they normally do with all of the other interfaces).

So until they do, or we reverse-engineer the interface, you should keep the setup you have.

Bill, no need for the STC------experimental

Will you equipment accept the input from the GTN 650? or is there a problem in the communication between the two boxes-----what you mention as "protocol"

[12vaitor]

Great paper with a lot of the compliance issues clearly identified. The core of the issue will be how compliance with the mandate will be enforced by the FAA at the end of day. Page 7 shows the real problems: 1. Portable systems are not approved despite meeting all other technical requirements. 2. Non-integrated systems require additional approval even if the components are individually approved. 3. An integrated system is most likely going to be the lowest unit cost approach for those without any ADS-B or certified WAAS GPS source already installed.


AOPA had a great article on the ADS-B mandate from a spam-can cost perspective. What does one make of a mandate that could economically kill a large part of the older GA fleet with little benefit in return to the pilot at the controls?

For some reason the obvious answer to fixing the problem is the one the FAA will not allow. Technically, there is no reason that a sub-$2,500 integrated system could not be used on any GA aircraft to meet the mandate. In most cases, it appears those units also happen to be portable systems. I am not sure what the FAA has against portable systems meeting the mandate if they are otherwise qualified. If the interest really is improving operations in the NAS, the FAA will revisit the rule and make changes to allow the use of compliant portable systems and define some simplified method of approving non-integrated systems.

John Salak
RV-12 N896HS
(Avidyne IFD540/Dynon ADS-B combination)

[shuttle]

Also in the UK, the CAA is supportive of a new 'supposedly low cost' portable ADS-B solution that is already under test.

http://www.aopa.co.uk/index.php?opti...ws&Itemid=1039

[SteinAir]

I think Pahan did an excellent overview. That said, I also am primarily (though not always) in the camp with Dynon on this. I can see no good reason if you're building a new plane, or even retrofitting one with a new EFIS to go spend a ton of money on a certified GPS position source solely dedicated to ADSB. As a whole, those give you literally nothing else functionally in your plane as far as capability goes other than "checking off that box" for ADSB.

Right now, we know that functionally you can "get by" without a certified source. Or course that will change at some point, but for now it works. One top of that, even if you spend $1K or $2K or $3K on a certified source, my thought is that money would best be applied towards something that can add functionality to your plane (like using that money towards something like a 430/GTN or whatever). Since the popular EFIS mfgr's have their own "in" boxes (Dynon/Garmin, etc..) for hundreds of dollars, and you're already likely buying a transponder anyway (which in itself will likely be "out" compliant), then the all in one boxes just don't make as much financial sense with some EFIS combinations as they used to.

Now for retrofits of flying planes (really can depend on what is currently installed), that's a completely different story...one that I'm working on for a Kitplanes Article to be forthcoming.

Bob makes some good point about ambiguity from various sources, and there literally are no answers that cover everybody and their own relative circumstances.

Just my 2 cents as usual!

Cheers,
Stein

[az_gila]

Originally Posted by Mike S

Bill, no need for the STC------experimental

Will you equipment accept the input from the GTN 650? or is there a problem in the communication between the two boxes-----what you mention as "protocol"

No, but per the OP document the combination GPS - Transmitter has to be a certified combination - whatever the Airworthiness Certificate says.

[az_gila]

Originally Posted by shuttle

Also in the UK, the CAA is supportive of a new 'supposedly low cost' portable ADS-B solution that is already under test.

http://www.aopa.co.uk/index.php?opti...ws&Itemid=1039

All of the UK is already Mode S on their transponders by mandate aren't they?

[dynonsupport]

Originally Posted by Bill Moffitt

Why wait?

NavWorx will soon be offering an ADS-B Compliant WAAS GPS solution for those with the Trig transponder. Much cheaper than the stand-alone NexNav or FreeFlight GPS boxes, AND it comes with a fully TSO'd ADS-B-IN receiver for weather and traffic.

Can be used in certified aircraft as well, since all of our products have the TSO, and the STC/AML for installations in certified aircraft.

For OEM's we offer the ability to output the GPS data to EFIS displays as well.

The model number is the ADS600-G - price is $2199.00

FYI - In my opinion, prices for ADS-B equipment will remain where they are at, if not go up slightly.

Bill,
Again, our suggestions are to our customers with our ADS-B compliant transponder. As you note, the reason to wait is that the product you suggest isn't on the market yet! Close, yes, but still not for sale, so it's not something we can be suggesting.

Additionally, as you mentioned, a system needs to be demonstrated compliant with both the ADS-B OUT and GPS source as a system. So our system will not be able to immediately use your GPS device as a compliant source. We've focused on supporting the IFR navigators so far since they are the ones people have already.

Finally, in our opinion, GPS sources will be cheaper than $2,200 in the next few years, so our recommendation to our customers is still to wait. Additionally, your website says the ADS600-G at $2,200 is not TSO'd, and the ADS600-BG with a TSO'd GPS is $3,800, not $2,200. So there's still a lot of confusion out there as to pricing and what you get.

Again, this is all about recommendations to customers or ours that already have our transponder or are buying new systems from us for VFR aircraft. Retrofits of whole systems may be different.