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01-04-2015, 09:29 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: La Feria Texas
Posts: 3,822
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I wonder if the traffic density is doing that to your display. According to Dynon you should be able to see that Cub!
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Originally Posted by PilotBrent
"if you're getting painted by ground radar then you will show up as traffic on the ADS-B uplink."
Not sure this is always the case. I fly in and around NY class B airspace and the ADSB coverage/signal is noted on the Skyview screen as being fully operational, however aircraft like Cubs without electrical systems (no transponder) are not showing up on my Skyview. Lots of targets are there, most of which I don't see until long after I see them on the screen. I really think ADSB traffic has added a lot of safety to my flying but it's not 100%.
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01-04-2015, 09:42 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 2,820
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Walt,
I have a D180 so I have a small WiFi module that sends TIS and FIS data to my IPad for display in WingX. You can hard wire the ADS receiver directly to a display unit, but I'm not sure if it is compatible with the Skyview display. The folks at Freeflight in Waco, Tx are vey helpful and could answer your questions about compatibility.
Rich
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01-04-2015, 09:48 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Charlotte NC
Posts: 1,167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PilotBrent
"if you're getting painted by ground radar then you will show up as traffic on the ADS-B uplink."
Not sure this is always the case. I fly in and around NY class B airspace and the ADSB coverage/signal is noted on the Skyview screen as being fully operational, however aircraft like Cubs without electrical systems (no transponder) are not showing up on my Skyview. Lots of targets are there, most of which I don't see until long after I see them on the screen. I really think ADSB traffic has added a lot of safety to my flying but it's not 100%.
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ADSB will only show targets with a transponder that the ground radar can see. Even traffic with a transponder may not show up at lower altitudes depending on the distance from the nearest ATC radar unless that target has ADSB out. As more and more aircraft get ADSB out its going to be a fantastic safety tool.
George
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01-04-2015, 10:00 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 2,820
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I've been using ADS-B In two years and In and Out since July. The TIS portion is great, but I agree there are issues:
Occasional ghosting where a return of my aircraft is on top of my position pip
Drop outs of traffic
Broadcast system outages
Visual traffic not on the TIS display
Nothing can replace eyeballs completely!
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01-04-2015, 11:33 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Newport, TN
Posts: 7,496
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This is what Jim (FAA ADS-B representative) had to say about radar only targets and TIS-B.
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Originally Posted by jdm117
Brian, primary radar does feed traffic data to TIS-B. Not sure of the circumstanses mentioned at Oshkosh last year but could be that traffic with xpndrs off were surpressed lacking data needed for SSR/PSR target correlation.
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01-04-2015, 04:34 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Livermore, CA
Posts: 6,797
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonFromTX
I wonder if the traffic density is doing that to your display. According to Dynon you should be able to see that Cub!
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With no transponder you are relying on "primary" radar to reflect off of the cub's steel tubing. But remember ATC radar has no vertical discrimination. Flying over a large city there is a tremendous amount of 'ground clutter' from tall steel buildings. Fly under or over another metal airplane and the primary targets merge. I think some fiberglass gliders are pretty much invisible to primary radar.
You just cannot count on ATC radar seeing non transponder aircraft.
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01-04-2015, 06:27 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: La Feria Texas
Posts: 3,822
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Well ****, there goes my inflight movies
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobTurner
With no transponder you are relying on "primary" radar to reflect off of the cub's steel tubing. But remember ATC radar has no vertical discrimination. Flying over a large city there is a tremendous amount of 'ground clutter' from tall steel buildings. Fly under or over another metal airplane and the primary targets merge. I think some fiberglass gliders are pretty much invisible to primary radar.
You just cannot count on ATC radar seeing non transponder aircraft.
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01-05-2015, 03:12 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 461
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZLeeJay
I love the ADS-B combined with the skyview. The traffic is very useful and I'd have trouble flying without it now. The weather is great too but less helpful here in Az.
I'm not sure these units will be compliant based on the current guidelines but I am studying it. From what I'm understanding there may need to be a TSO'd GPS input.
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I also thought that the WX overlay was not that useful in Southern AZ until I flew from TUS via PAN to GCN last fall. 30nm south of PAN I saw a nasty thunderstorm front north of PAN that was impractical to fly around and it cut us off from Grand Canyon. I landed in PAN to wait it out and squeezed it in with 15kt gusty cross winds. I got to talk to a fellow who flew his Bonanza through that storm - he was still a bit green in the face. WX forecast had said light occasional showers that day.
I totally love my ADS-B! It's just very reassuring to verify that radio announcements are actually correct (or to see the truth when they are not) while flying in a busy pattern.
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01-05-2015, 03:28 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Woodinville, WA
Posts: 1,499
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brantel
This is what Jim (FAA ADS-B representative) had to say about radar only targets and TIS-B.
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Jim needs to freshen up one weekend with the AIM (which is AWESOME for any question about ADS-B):
Quote:
Quote:
b. TIS-B Capabilities.
1. TIS-B is intended to provide ADS-B equipped aircraft with a more complete traffic picture in situations where not all nearby aircraft are equipped with ADS-B Out. This advisory-only application is intended to enhance a pilot's visual acquisition of other traffic.
2. Only transponder-equipped targets (i.e., Mode A/C or Mode S transponders) are transmitted through the ATC ground system architecture. Current radar siting may result in limited radar surveillance coverage at lower altitudes near some airports, with subsequently limited TIS-B service volume coverage. If there is no radar coverage in a given area, then there will be no TIS-B coverage in that area.
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So no, primary only (no transponder) aircraft are not visible via the TIS-B (ADS-B) system. Or the AIM is wrong.. But in our experience the AIM is right.
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01-05-2015, 04:35 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Marshall TX (KASL)
Posts: 1,783
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While the graphical weather is great on a cross-country, I also find that being able to look at the current decoded text weather conditions for any airport I choose is REALLY useful!
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