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  #71  
Old 12-18-2014, 09:28 AM
cactusman cactusman is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
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I also found this article as well - seems to refer to a capacitor being wired in with the reg.....talks about how to test it as well....

http://pointsforpilots.blogspot.com/...rator-and.html
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  #72  
Old 12-18-2014, 11:32 AM
RFSchaller RFSchaller is offline
 
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Location: Phoenix, AZ
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John,

I think that smoothing capacitor is in the instrument panel module from Vans. I noticed one when I put my module in and assumed that's what it was. I'd have to check the schematic to be sure.

Rich
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  #73  
Old 12-18-2014, 05:33 PM
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WingedFrog WingedFrog is offline
 
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Location: Raleigh, NC
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This is another piece of information very relevant to this thread. I took it from a Blog belonging to Klaus Truemper, the author of the link provided above by Cactuspilot.

http://pointsforpilots.blogspot.com/...2-voltage.html

This thread becomes a wealth of information about the 912 Rotax/Ducati regulator/rectifier

I had a discussion with an A&P specialist of Remos at my airport about our issues. As soon as he heard the word Rotax/Ducati regulator he started smiling. Remos have the same problems as we have and that are well explained in the above link. He figures that the MTBF for the Remos is about 400 hours.
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Last edited by WingedFrog : 12-18-2014 at 05:40 PM. Reason: missed information
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  #74  
Old 12-19-2014, 08:02 AM
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MacPara MacPara is offline
 
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I had heard about the failure rate of the Ducati regulator in the RV-12 configuration early on and researched this quite a while back. It seems that it is worse in the RV-12 than in other Rotax installation but still not very encouraging when looking at the MTBF in those other installations.
I decided to look into motorcycle regulators, particularly the ones that feature modern MOSFET designs which are emitting less heat and therefore are less likely to contribute to the temperature problem we are seeing with the Ducati regulator.
After a lot of searching I settled on a Shindengen FH012, a 3-phase regulator with MOSFETs, 30Amp continuous rating and said to be very tolerant to heat. They are used in Honda and Yamaha motorcycles and ATVs and are readily available.
There are reports that some Ducati drivers that were haunted by failing regulators have successfully solved their issues by installing this regulator instead of the original one. Yes, it seems they also fail on motorcycles. Who knew?
My reg is still doing fine at 70 hours but I have the FH012 sitting on a shelf in case I see problems. The installation will require some changes to the plug and certainly some slight changes to the mounting point but the size is comparable and it should fit on the shelf fine.
I won't be working on this replacement before need arises but as this thread is becoming very popular I thought I let anyone know about what I found so far, in case they like to pick up the idea and go ahead working on this.

BTW, the 3-phase input is not a problem. It is just a feature that we cannot use as the Rotax generator only has one phase. Just connect the Rotax output to one of the 3 phase inputs on the reg and leave the other 2 leads open.

Why didn't I decide to use the Deere regulator that was mentioned here earlier? It's the same architecture as the Rotax and the power rating marginal for our use (considering it will be running in a hot environment too). So it's likely that it might just be cheaper to replace but might still fail - although not so frequently, maybe. YMMV.
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  #75  
Old 12-19-2014, 09:09 AM
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tomkk tomkk is offline
 
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fyi, just did a search for the Shindengen FH012 regulator. They seem to have replaced that model with the FH020AA. According to one source: "Shindengen has replaced the former FH012AA regulator with a updated version, the new part number is FH020AA . The updated version is physically the same size only minor changes have been made to the heat sink casting."
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Port Orange, Fl
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RV-12 N121TK ELSA #120845; first flight 06/10/2015; 700 hrs as of 02/2020
RV-12 N918EN ELSA #120995 Eagles Nest Project; first flight 05/18/2019
SPA Panther N26TK; First Flight 03/13/2020
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  #76  
Old 12-19-2014, 09:34 AM
JBPILOT JBPILOT is offline
 
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Location: Jesup, Iowa
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Default Link to updated reg/rec

http://motoelectrixcom.myshopify.com...-rectifier-kit

Have not had a problem, but looks like a good solution for it.
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  #77  
Old 12-19-2014, 10:58 AM
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MacPara MacPara is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomkk View Post
fyi, just did a search for the Shindengen FH012 regulator. They seem to have replaced that model with the FH020AA. According to one source: "Shindengen has replaced the former FH012AA regulator with a updated version, the new part number is FH020AA . The updated version is physically the same size only minor changes have been made to the heat sink casting."
I decided against using the FH020 for now because among the "minor changes" they were quoting was a temperature control. This control is supposed to avoid overheating and will shut the regulator off if it feels it is becoming too hot. I think in our environment I would rather not have to worry if the non-charging is coming from a regulator failure or an overly cautious temperature control circuit.
Now once I would have verified that the FH012 is working great, I would probably consider checking the FH020. It is a drop-in replacement as the connectors are identical. It might be that the temperature control would only kick in after engine shut off in our application or for a short time after starting the engine when finished with a refueling stop on a Southern Arizona airport in the summer. Either way, I did not want to have too many parameters in the equation that could have a "not charging" result when trying something new.
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SkyView, Light Package, ADSB
http://torstensrv-12.blogspot.com/
APRS Track
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  #78  
Old 12-19-2014, 11:01 AM
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tomkk tomkk is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacPara View Post
I decided against using the FH020 for now because among the "minor changes" they were quoting was a temperature control. This control is supposed to avoid overheating and will shut the regulator off if it feels it is becoming too hot. I think in our environment I would rather not have to worry if the non-charging is coming from a regulator failure or an overly cautious temperature control circuit.
Now once I would have verified that the FH012 is working great, I would probably consider checking the FH020. It is a drop-in replacement as the connectors are identical. It might be that the temperature control would only kick in after engine shut off in our application or for a short time after starting the engine when finished with a refueling stop on a Southern Arizona airport in the summer. Either way, I did not want to have too many parameters in the equation that could have a "not charging" result when trying something new.
Good to know. The site I was looking at didn't mention the auto shutoff ...
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Port Orange, Fl
EAA #51411
RV-12 N121TK ELSA #120845; first flight 06/10/2015; 700 hrs as of 02/2020
RV-12 N918EN ELSA #120995 Eagles Nest Project; first flight 05/18/2019
SPA Panther N26TK; First Flight 03/13/2020
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  #79  
Old 12-19-2014, 05:42 PM
h&jeuropa h&jeuropa is offline
 
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Yes, you have to have a capacitor on the output of the regulator / rectifier. It smooths the DC output. It is called out in the Rotax Install Manual and I believe supplied as part of the RV12 electrical system.

Shindengen regulators / rectifiers are shunt regulators. I'm not an expert, but my understanding is that a shunt regulator / rectifier is not very efficient. They dissipate energy not needed to satisfy power demand as heat. The advantage of the Shindengen units over other shunt regulators / rectifiers is that they use MOSFET technology rather than SCR technology, MOSFET being more efficient. So it is a more efficient way to dissipate energy not needed.

The Ducatti regulator / rectifier is a bridge rectifier which only rectifies (converts from AC to DC) the AC from the dynmo when needed to satisfy power demand. If your power requirements are modest, much of the time the SCRs are turned off, generating no heat. When needed, they turn on and heat is generated. It also provides more pure DC so it is easier to filter and smooth.

The John Deere unit mentioned looks pretty good too. Here's a link to more information on it: http://www.n56ml.com/corvair/dynamo.html

Jim Butcher
Europa XS Rotax 914, GRT Sport EFIS
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  #80  
Old 12-22-2014, 05:01 PM
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WingedFrog WingedFrog is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rvbuilder2002 View Post
Rushed?
The design that was abandon was in place since the introduction of the RV-12 (4 + years?)

You assume tests were not made.....?
What was I thinking when I wrote this? (I suspect I was in the mind of an S-LSA owner) . You are right Scott, as an E-LSA builder I took possession of a sound platform developed by VANs based on decades of experience (and tests!) and I should be thankful for it (and I am!). As far as tests go, if I disagree with Vans solutions it is my problem to prove them wrong by doing my own tests as the E-LSA regulations allow.
Some people thanked you in another thread for the great help you provide through your participation to this Forum and I want to join the chorus on this thread. Merry Christmas!
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Builder's name: Jean-Pierre Bernoux
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Kit # 120395 N124BX
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Builder's Blog:http://vieilleburette.blogspot.com/
EAA 1114
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