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12-16-2014, 01:43 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Schaumburg, IL
Posts: 2,053
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I have a Skyview and I can tell you I am thrilled with Dynon. I update my databases every month and always feel like I have current info. Additionally I have just purchased the Seattle Avionics data which gives me geo-references Sectionals and IFR charts as well as Terminal Approaches and Airport Diagrams. That costs $100/year but the update process works well. I am not sure I will continue the SA subscription as Foreflight really does the same thing, which I have also.
I use 2 USB flash drives and leave one continuously connected to Skyview. The other, I update when new data comes available and just swap drives when I want to upload the new databases.
I am not "down" on Garmin for their fee schedules. I just am not the type of person who will keep stuff updated if I always have to pay $$. For me this was a deciding factor to choose Dynon.
__________________
Tony Phillips
N524AP, RV 9 (tail wheel)
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12-17-2014, 05:11 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Edwards
Can I just hijack the thread a little bit since the original question seems answered. I am making the same choice at the moment for my RV-12 but I live in Australia. I am struggling to work out which charts/databases will be available for the 2 systems here.
It seems that the choices are:
Dynon
via a pocket FMS, Nav and airport data but no charts, 150 euro per year.
via Jeppsen, Nav, Obstacle and airport data but no charts, $315 per year
Garmin
via flyGarmin, Nav and airport data but no charts $375 per year
via Jeppsen something is available but I have to ring them up as they wont tell me on their website the costs...
Do I understand this correctly?
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Thanks for the information G3Xpert and Dynonsupport.
For anyone else who was wondering I followed up with Jeppesen for the G3X. Prices are $220 for the Nav data, $320 for the Charts and $183 for the terrain but not that these are in Australian dollars and not US so multiply by about 0.82 to compare to the US prices.
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12-17-2014, 06:05 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Oakland, CA
Posts: 349
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I also find the flyGarmin website very confusing. I have a G3X and a GTN650, and I am trying to figure out what I need for VFR with the occasional IFR flight.
I see "Database Bundles" and "Pilot Paks" and I am having a hard time figuring out how they are different.
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12-18-2014, 08:08 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
Posts: 3,932
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g3xpert
- Pacific Navigation Data (Jeppesen data), $60/update or $180/yr
- Worldwide Terrain, $75/update, your one time free update will ensure this is current at time of purchase and terrain doesn't update often (last update was well over a year ago)
- Pacific Airport Directory by AC-U-KWIK, $50/update or $195/yr
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Brian, two questions:
Are these prices *per screen*? So if you have dual screens in your RV these numbers have to double?
What happens when the database expires? Do you get a "warning, this data isn't current" but then you can continue to use it, or does the data get locked out?
__________________
Rob Prior
1996 RV-6 "Tweety" C-FRBP (formerly N196RV)
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12-18-2014, 08:47 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Olathe, KS
Posts: 2,885
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edneff
I also find the flyGarmin website very confusing. I have a G3X and a GTN650, and I am trying to figure out what I need for VFR with the occasional IFR flight.
I see "Database Bundles" and "Pilot Paks" and I am having a hard time figuring out how they are different.
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Hello Ed,
Happy to help out with this. Put simply, a G3X Database Bundle includes databases for a G3X system, and the Pilot Pak is a database subscription for a G3X system with a GTN650/750.
So, is it as simple as choosing the Pilot Pak if you have a GTN and a Database Bundle if you don't? Not really.
With those big G3X displays, it is optional to keep all of the databases updated on the GTN 650. You could instead install EVERY database on a G3X/G3X Touch system for only $149.99/yr and only buy a Jepp NAV IFR database for the GTN. Jepp NAV database updates for the GTN are presently $195 for a single Americas update and $585/yr. The Jepp NAV database subscription can be added to your FlyGarmin account, so you just have to go one place on the web to download all of your database updates each month for your G3X system with a GTN 650.
When you are flying IFR enroute or IFR procedures with the GTN, it shares its straight and curved path leg segments with the G3X system enabling G3X to accurately render the same information on the map and sectional charts including missed approaches and holding patterns - even when the G3X system doesn't have a Jepp IFR Nav database.
These are the two database bundles available for G3X/G3X Touch systems. This is a system subscription that covers all of the G3X displays in the system.
US Mini Database Bundle for G3X/G3X Touch Systems $49.99/yr ($4.17/mo)
Includes the following databases, updated as often as you like using an SD card in the display:
- US VFR Navigation Data (airports, runways, frequencies)
- Obstacles (e.g. towers - used to provide obstacle visual and aural alerting including obstacle depiction in synthetic vision)
- Terrain (used to render synthetic vision and provide terrain alerting)
- SafeTaxi (airport diagrams integrated into moving map that are displayed and zoomed automatically when you need them for taxi and landing)
US Lite Database Bundle for G3X/G3X Touch Systems $149.99/yr ($12.50/mo)
Includes the following 7 databases, updated as often as you like using an SD card in the display:
- US VFR Navigation Data (airports, runways, frequencies)
- Obstacles (e.g. towers - used to provide obstacle visual and aural alerting including obstacle depiction in synthetic vision)
- Terrain (used to render synthetic vision and provide terrain alerting)
- FliteCharts (Geo-referenced IFR approach plates, airport diagrams, arrival and departure procedures)
- SafeTaxi (airport diagrams integrated into moving map that are displayed and zoomed automatically when you need them for taxi and landing)
- Airport Directory (FBOs, runways, hours of operation, rental cars, etc)
- IFR/VFR Charts (VFR sectionals and IFR Hi/Lo charts, G3X Touch only)
In reference to the original poster's questions, and in defense of another poster's claim that our database prices are ridiculous, we want to provide some clarification.
While it is true that Garmin doesn't provide free databases, it is also true that Garmin doesn't charge $500 extra for navigation mapping software.
So, let's see how that $500 might otherwise be used. For the same $500 you might pay up front for another system, you could buy 10 years worth of US Mini Databases, and not only would you receive Navigation, Obstacle, and Terrain databases, but you would also receive SafeTaxi database updates which provides airport diagrams integrated into the moving map.
Now let's take this a step further and say you wanted to also include VFR sectionals, IFR HI/LO charts, airport diagrams and approach plates for your system. For another system you might need to contract with a 3rd party and pay $99/yr, and with your G3X system you would need to add the same $99 to the base subscription to upgrade to the US Lite Database Bundle for $149.99/yr and would receive those databases plus the AOPA Airport directory. So, for the first 10 years of operation, you would pay the same for both systems, but receive much more data, and from a single supplier, when using the G3X system.
We have a dedicated database team under our roof that works very hard to acquire data from around the world and make this data available to our customers. This group follows DO-200A processes, as required, to provide assurances that the quality of the data is as high as possible. We are quite proud of the value offered by these two affordable database bundles offered for G3X systems, and don't mind being very open and transparent about these costs.
Thanks,
Steve
__________________
Garmin G3X Support
g3xpert@garmin.com
1-866-854-8433 - 7 to 7 Central Time M to F
Please email us for support instead of using Private Messaging due to the limitations of the latter.
Last edited by g3xpert : 12-18-2014 at 10:34 AM.
Reason: Added note that subscription covers all displays.
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12-18-2014, 11:08 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: US
Posts: 2,251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g3xpert
In reference to the original poster's questions, and in defense of another poster's claim that our database prices are ridiculous, we want to provide some clarification.
While it is true that Garmin doesn't provide free databases, it is also true that Garmin doesn't charge $500 extra for navigation mapping software.
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Not a fair comparison...that's a *one-time* charge and, as explained, is only needed once no matter how many screens an installation has (although I still think if I were in charge of marketing, I'd bundle it in, then give a *discount* to "remove" it from 2nd or 3rd displays  ).
You're also comparing a license for a software *feature* against a *database* subscription.
If you're going to favorably compare your product to another vendor, you ought to at least compare apples to apples.
Quote:
So, let's see how that $500 might otherwise be used. For the same $500 you might pay up front for another system, you could buy 10 years worth of US Mini Databases, and not only would you receive Navigation, Obstacle, and Terrain databases, but you would also receive SafeTaxi database updates which provides airport diagrams integrated into the moving map.
Now let's take this a step further and say you wanted to also include VFR sectionals, IFR HI/LO charts, airport diagrams and approach plates for your system. For another system you might need to contract with a 3rd party and pay $99/yr, and with your G3X system you would need to add the same $99 to the base subscription to upgrade to the US Lite Database Bundle for $149.99/yr and would receive those databases plus the AOPA Airport directory. So, for the first 10 years of operation, you would pay the same for both systems, but receive much more data, and from a single supplier, when using the G3X system.
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I don't know the pricing policies on all these different G3X bundles and such, but I stand by my original point regarding ***IFR*** boxes (like the 430W), that Jeppesen gouges the customer ($425/yr for US database), and Garmin on the terrain/obstacle databases ($150 for single terrain update, $195 per year for obstacles subscription). If I want all the database subscriptions/updates for my IFR navigator, that's $620 per year, plus the occasional $150 for terrain data.
Now let's see how that stacks up to Skyview: $500 one-time fee, plus $99 a year for VFR, IFR Hi/Lo, Approaches, Departures, Airport Diagrams and Flight Guide diagrams.
Oh, not to mention the special USB adapters I need to buy to program the two cards, at $195 for the Garmin adapter and $60 for the Jeppesen Skybound adapter. (I won't include the $400 in application-specific memory cards, as they came with the box, but it's nice to have a second nav card so I can update the card at my office, then swap in the plane, so there's another $200).
Yes, I know that IFR-certified databases involve a lot more rigorous in the translation from ARINC records to proprietary format, especially in the validation of the data prior to release, and so forth.
Still, it's a hard pill to swallow...especially when, for IFR, we're at the mercy, really, of just two companies.
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12-18-2014, 02:21 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Olathe, KS
Posts: 2,885
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G3X database management
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowflake
Brian, two questions:
Are these prices *per screen*? So if you have dual screens in your RV these numbers have to double?
What happens when the database expires? Do you get a "warning, this data isn't current" but then you can continue to use it, or does the data get locked out?
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Snowflake,
All of our G3X database purchases are tied to the aircraft and not to the individual display. Whether you buy a single G3X database update or a G3X database bundle it will update your entire panel. See Steve's separate post in this thread which explains the differences between G3X database bundles, PilotPaks which incorporate IFR navigator databases, and mixing database bundles with individual database subscriptions.
When any of our G3X databases expire, you will still have access to the data, including Garmin FliteCharts (approach plates, airport diagrams, etc. all remain active). Database status will always be shown on power up or can be pulled up manually from a display menu (see pic below showing the obstacle database expiration in yellow). Please note that if you opt for Jeppesen ChartView instead of Garmin FliteCharts, Jepp requires that data to be disabled 70 days after it expires at which point you will no longer be able to access it.
I thought I'd also include a screen grab of our flyGarmin website to give you an idea how databases are managed. While it can be somewhat confusing initially since there are many possible products and databases to choose from, once you've added a G3X system to your account and picked your database package, flyGarmin makes it simple to actually manage the databases.
This first image shows the summary view. Note that in addition to the on screen status mentioned above, flyGarmin also highlights whether the last database downloaded is out of date.
The next image shows the download screen that pops up after you click "Install". Notice that this screen allows you to choose allthe databases you'd like to have written to the SD card. So one download writes all the databases to the card and now you're ready to take it to the plane.
Now that you have your SD card ready, place it in the SD card slot on the front bezel of the display. You'll get a prompt to update databases as shown below. The green checked items are telling you they are good to go. The yellow items have not yet been installed or they are older than the version currently on the card. The system will update the databases as needed if you simply press UPDATE ALL. You can repeat the process for each installed display using the same card.
What takes a lot of words to describe is pretty straight forward in practice since it can all be managed from one site and through a single download to the SD card.
Thanks,
Brian
__________________
Garmin G3X Support
g3xpert@garmin.com
1-866-854-8433 - 7 to 7 Central Time M to F
Please email us for support instead of using Private Messaging due to the limitations of the latter.
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01-31-2015, 07:05 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: 07TS
Posts: 472
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Brian,
Is there a package discount available for a G3X touch with a GTN 650?
What would you recommend for that setup?
Thanks,
-Dan
__________________
Dan Weyant
RV-9A N96KD
Done and Flying 4/30/2015
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02-02-2015, 11:53 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Olathe, KS
Posts: 2,885
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dweyant
Brian,
Is there a package discount available for a G3X touch with a GTN 650?
What would you recommend for that setup?
Thanks,
-Dan
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Dan,
We do have package pricing for the G3X Touch with the GTN series. We call it a "PilotPak" and you can find the details on our flyGarmin website by selecting G3X Touch from the drop down menu: https://fly.garmin.com/fly-garmin/support/pricing
The other option is to purchase the nav data subscription for your GTN so you are able to load all waypoints and procedures. Then a G3X Touch database bundle can keep all your G3X displays up to date. Depending on what you are after, it can save you some money to go this route.
Thanks,
Brian
__________________
Garmin G3X Support
g3xpert@garmin.com
1-866-854-8433 - 7 to 7 Central Time M to F
Please email us for support instead of using Private Messaging due to the limitations of the latter.
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02-02-2015, 02:24 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,291
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Another thread hijack here, with input requested of both Dynon and Garmin, please.
I'm looking at this from the perspective of a Canadian who will be doing an IFR panel using a Garmin navigator (GNS480 in this case).
How do the purchase and subscription costs stack up between Dynon and Garmin to allow me to have VFR mapping and full IFR database support for Canadian operations?
Thanks in advance for your well considered replies.
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