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12-17-2014, 10:20 AM
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Join Date: May 2014
Location: Savannah
Posts: 806
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EBB, sorry if I was an ***... I dint mean to come off that way. I understand the energy that you have on this issue. For you it seems like a three sided issue: #1 rules for mandatory SBs and SDS for SLSA are clearly defined, maybe different than the part 23 world, but they are what they are. #2 the lack of customer communication from Rotax, which unfortunately has always been the way they do business. Not that I am defending them but they do things differently, and almost all of the engines they produce and sell are non-certified units that are to be installed in EAB or SLSA aircraft, and they way I understand it is the manufacturer of an SLSA aircraft is responsible for communicating safety and maintenance issues. #3 Lack of free replacement parts for known defects from Rotax. Good luck with that one, they make great engines, but they have a long track record of not supporting warranty issues or providing upgrade parts for known issues, even when the engine is still under warranty.
The floats are made by Bing, who makes the carbs. There are other sources of Bing parts than from Rotax. They will make some new batches of floats that will be just fine, but it will take some time unfortunately. I had some older used floats that were not affected that I would have given you, but I recently gave them to someone else that was having problems.
http://bingcarburetor.com I have purchased Bing parts here several times.
__________________
Mike Hammond
A&P IA PPL ASEL
RV-14A kit S/N 140170
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12-17-2014, 11:54 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 2,820
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I'm not one of the affected serial numbers (for once some good luck!), but I was wondering about the float availability issue. Have all the overhaul kits in stock been sold by the usual sources (Lockwood, CPS, ETC)? Don't those kits include floats. An expensive way to get the floats, but if the kits are available from old stock at least you'd be flying again.
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12-17-2014, 03:11 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: High Wycombe, UK
Posts: 288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike H
Even if an AD was issued, do you think Rotax will pony up and send you some new design floats? Rotax is notorious for not supporting known issues. Look at the countless service bulletins that address gearbox issues, light weight case cracking issues, ignition module issues, oil pressure sender issues, fuel pump issues etc. they never supplied replacement parts for free to resolve any of these issues. The only parts that I am aware of that Rotax replaced for free was the intake manifold for the IS engine when it was redesigned and became obsolete in less than a year from delivery of the first IS engines.
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Really? Perhaps you can quantify your sweeping statement.
I wonder why Rotax sent out latest spec fuel pumps free of charge if what you say is correct? I know - we got one for our RV-12.
Rotax may not send out free replacement parts for every engine they've ever made when they improve a component but what manufacturer of anything ever does that?
Lycoming and TCM have issued the odd SB in their time. Did they send out free updated compnents to all affected motors?
I'm all for freedom of speech and opinion but it would be handy to be factually correct if you want to state facts...
Edit to add: Tecnam is now, I understand, the largest producer of GA aircraft. Nearly all of their aircraft use the Rotax 912 and many of the aircraft are certified (P2002JF, P2008JC and P2006T for instance). I think there are more certified 912s in production/use than you might think.
Rotax provide comprehensive continuing airworthiness data in the form of installation manuals, operators manuals, maintenance manuals, parts catalog(ue)s, SB, etc - all absolutely free of charge and on line. In my book that's better communication with their customers than some others in the industry who demand vast sums of money to access their data....
__________________
Jerry Parr
England
Ex RV-12
Loving Rotax....
Last edited by aerofurb : 12-17-2014 at 04:21 PM.
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12-17-2014, 04:17 PM
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Join Date: May 2014
Location: Savannah
Posts: 806
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Yes really! I have never owned a 912 that was in warranty, but I know several who have and only some got the new style fuel pumps replaced for free.
This is not a Rotax vs Lycoming vs Continental argument.
__________________
Mike Hammond
A&P IA PPL ASEL
RV-14A kit S/N 140170
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12-17-2014, 04:25 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: High Wycombe, UK
Posts: 288
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Correct me if I'm wrong, Mike, but you said 'they never supplied replacement parts for free' which is factually incorrect.
Sure, not everyone got the latest fuel pump FOC, for instance, but those under warranty did. Those out of warranty got them at 50% discount, if I remember correctly.
I say again - what manufacturer in any walk of life provides life-long free upgrades for their products?
You single out Rotax as being the bad boys here but in truth they do no less than other aircraft engine manufacturers and in many cases do a whole lot more.
__________________
Jerry Parr
England
Ex RV-12
Loving Rotax....
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12-17-2014, 05:32 PM
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Join Date: May 2014
Location: Savannah
Posts: 806
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aerofurb
Correct me if I'm wrong, Mike, but you said 'they never supplied replacement parts for free' which is factually incorrect.
Sure, not everyone got the latest fuel pump FOC, for instance, but those under warranty did. Those out of warranty got them at 50% discount, if I remember correctly.
I say again - what manufacturer in any walk of life provides life-long free upgrades for their products
You single out Rotax as being the bad boys here but in truth they do no less than other aircraft engine manufacturers and in many cases do a whole lot more.
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I never said that Rotax never supplies replacement parts for free. I said I personally know a few people who had affected engines and only some got parts FOC.
No one i know that had affected pumps out of warranty was offered a 50% parts discount. I'm not saying that was not the case, but they paid full price.
None, nor do I or anyone else expect any manufacturer to do something such as that. I never said Rotax should give everyone free parts and upgrades for life. You started the Rotax vs Lycoming vs Continental argument. I really like the Rotax 912 engine and would buy one again.
I strongly disagree, I have much better support from other engine manufacturers, but that's my experience and my opinion. Do a google search for "Rotax warranty denial" and see what kind of experience others have had.
__________________
Mike Hammond
A&P IA PPL ASEL
RV-14A kit S/N 140170
Last edited by Mike H : 12-17-2014 at 05:38 PM.
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12-17-2014, 06:52 PM
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: Friday Harbor, Wa
Posts: 300
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I received a free fuel pump for my RV12 and it was approx 3 years out of warranty. I know of one other person who also got theirs free.
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MRT890
120042 RV-12
N112XP
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12-17-2014, 07:57 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Dayton, OH
Posts: 838
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120241 also got a free pump
or at least a full refund on the purchase price from Lockwood. Who I assume got their money from Rotax. This three years after the engine was purechased and more than 2 years after first flight.
Wayne 120241/143WM
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12-18-2014, 07:47 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Marysvale, UT
Posts: 53
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Rotax tries to stay out front and when they have 2-3 issues they' jump in and let people know and try to help.
Or you could have been one of the Zenith 601 people where they had 6 crashes and 9 fatalities and never once took responsibility or helped anyone. After they were going to get slammed and got grounded in Europe they offered to SELL others a retro kit.
I'll take the guys who want to stay out front and help without government and mass intervention.
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12-18-2014, 02:42 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: High Wycombe, UK
Posts: 288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike H
I never said that Rotax never supplies replacement parts for free.
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Apologies then Mike, I must have misunderstood your statement in Post #9, if I may quote (my bold for clarity):
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike H
Look at the countless service bulletins that address gearbox issues, light weight case cracking issues, ignition module issues, oil pressure sender issues, fuel pump issues etc. they never supplied replacement parts for free to resolve any of these issues.
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I thought you meant in that post #9, that Rotax had never supplied replacement parts for free to resolve any of those issues.
My mistake.... 
__________________
Jerry Parr
England
Ex RV-12
Loving Rotax....
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