Mapping subscriptions

[tomkk]

I've been reviewing downloaded versions of the Garmin & Skyview User's Guides prior to ordering my own system. I'm having trouble sorting out what of the mapping capabilities they describe require paid subscriptions through Seattle, Jepp, PocketFMS, etc., what gets lost without those subscriptions and generally how it all works.

I see moving map, obstacle clearance, flight planning capabilities, etc. capabilities that would require regular updates. Are all these updates through paid subscriptions? Are there any "Lifetime" subscriptions provided with the systems similar to what's available for auto GPSs? Generally how often are updates required? Do subscriptions include VFR/IFR charts, airport diagrams, etc.?

Van's Garmin order form says it comes with the Americas databases and a refresh certificate. Is that for a single refresh or longer? The Skyview order form says it comes with SV-270 Moving Map software with USA FAA Nav Database, no mention of updates.

I guess the real problem I'm having is too much info from sources that use slightly different terminology that I'm having trouble reconciling.

Thanks

[RV7A Flyer]

So let's break it down...you mention Garmin and Skyview. Which Garmin box do you have?

As for Skyview:

The "aviation" and "obstacle" databases are free from Dynon on their database updates page. Aviation is exactly that, airports, navaids, etc., all the stuff you'd need for flight planning. Obstacles are, well, obstacles like towers and such. The aviation and obstacle databases are updated once a month. The terrain database is updated much less often, as it doesn't change very much.

As for mapping and navigation on the Skyview, you pay a one-time fee (after the 30 hour free "intro" to the capabilities) for the SV-MAP-270 Navigation Mapping Software. See here:

http://wiki.dynonavionics.com/SV-SYN...Data)_Overview

But bottom line here is just to go ahead and pay it. It's silly to have a highly capable system like SV and not have this enabled. Frankly, I don't know why they bother to offer it as a separate thing with the "additional" cost (they should just roll it into the total cost of the box).

Now, CHARTS on SV are a different thing...they do require a subscription for them from Seattle Avionics. I think it's a hundred bucks a year, you get VFR, IFR Low/High, Approach Plates, Airport Diagrams and A/FD diagrams. A bargain.

Note that none of this has anything to do with Garmin...you'll have to buy those subscriptions separately, from Jeppesen (for aviation data) at Jepp's prices (don't forget the ridiculously overpriced "adapters" for the navcards you have to buy), or from Garmin (for terrain data), again at a ridiculous price AND also including another adapter card.

[tomkk]

Thanks, Joe, that was really helpful.

The Garmin I'm looking at is the G3X system Van's just started offering for the -12. I take it from your last remarks that Garmin's higher prices don't stop with the initial purchase .

The link to Dynon's overview was really helpful, particularly where it says "Note that SV-MAP-270 is the CAPABILITY to display Navigation Mapping - it is NOT the Navigation Mapping data! ". That statement, in itself, cleared up a lot of my confusion.

Yeah, agree, not sure why they don't just roll the extra price into the box price.

[humptybump]

I expect there will be some better Garmin details to follow from other members.

In the meantime, I will say that - if you are looking at the G3X for the RV-12 - then you don't need any special card / adapters. The G3X uses a simple SD card for loading new data. Also, for VFR, you don't need any special data from Jeppesen. Garmin data are much more affordable than Jepp data.

If you have a 430W/530W series IFR certified GPS, you will need Jeppesen data.

[g3xpert]

Tom,

Thanks for your interest in G3X. I'll try to address all of your questions here, but as always, feel free to use the direct contact information in the signature below if you need anything else.

I see moving map, obstacle clearance, flight planning capabilities, etc. capabilities that would require regular updates. Are all these updates through paid subscriptions?

All G3X Touch database updates will be downloaded to an SD card using the flyGarmin website. So for the RV-12, all your databases will come from the same source which will simplify managing your updates. For a detailed list of database bundle contents and pricing, please follow this link. G3X database bundles are available for as little as $50/year which includes navigation, obstacle, terrain and Garmin SafeTaxi data (detailed diagram of airports on the moving map which are geo-referenced).

Are there any "Lifetime" subscriptions provided with the systems similar to what's available for auto GPSs? Generally how often are updates required?

Lifetime subscriptions are not available for G3X. You can find a detailed list of aviation database cycles here. The most frequent updates range from a 28 to 56 day cycle depending on the data.

Do subscriptions include VFR/IFR charts, airport diagrams, etc.?

Yes. The G3X US Lite Database Bundle includes all items listed in the $50/year bundle, but adds IFR/VFR charts, Garmin geo-referenced FliteCharts, and Airport Directory. The US Lite Database Bundle is $150/year.

Van's Garmin order form says it comes with the Americas databases and a refresh certificate. Is that for a single refresh or longer?

The refresh certificate is good for a one time update of all G3X databases. You should receive one of these certificates with each display purchased (i.e. if you purchase a two display system, you should receive two certificates.

Hopefully this helps clarify the G3X database options. Please let us know if you have any more questions about databases and their features. You may also find some of the information available on our G3X Touch webpage helpful.

Thanks,
Brian

[dynonsupport]

Originally Posted by tomkk

Yeah, agree, not sure why they don't just roll the extra price into the box price.

Tom,
Not every installation wants to use SkyView for the mapping function, and we only charge that once per AIRPLANE. So if we roll it into the price, and you had two screens, you'll pay twice. The RV-12 already comes with mapping on the main screen, so if you add a second screen, you don't need to buy the map again.

I agree it's not perfect and can be confusing until you understand it, but that is why it works the way it does.

As accurately mentioned earlier- USA aviation and obstacle data is free on our website, no subscription needed. Adding VFR sectionals, IFR HI/LO, airport diagrams and approach plates is $99 a year. Doesn't matter how many screens you have in the plane, we charge per plane, not per screen.

[tomkk]

Great info from everyone, thanks.

[Alex Edwards]

Can I just hijack the thread a little bit since the original question seems answered. I am making the same choice at the moment for my RV-12 but I live in Australia. I am struggling to work out which charts/databases will be available for the 2 systems here.

It seems that the choices are:

Dynon
via a pocket FMS, Nav and airport data but no charts, 150 euro per year.
via Jeppsen, Nav, Obstacle and airport data but no charts, $315 per year

Garmin
via flyGarmin, Nav and airport data but no charts $375 per year
via Jeppsen something is available but I have to ring them up as they wont tell me on their website the costs...

Do I understand this correctly?

[dynonsupport]

Alex,
That's pretty close for Dynon, except:

PocketFMS is 120 euro a year, not 150. However, for the 150, you do get whatever "plates" they have for Australia. You'd need to check with them to see what they have right now, they are always expanding. We do hope to support ICAO charts from them in the future as well.

[g3xpert]

Alex,

Garmin currently offers the following databases via FlyGarmin which contain Australian coverage:

• Pacific Navigation Data (Jeppesen data), $60/update or $180/yr
• Worldwide Terrain, $75/update, your one time free update will ensure this is current at time of purchase and terrain doesn't update often (last update was well over a year ago)
• Pacific Airport Directory by AC-U-KWIK, $50/update or $195/yr

G3X Touch software also provides integrated support for Jeppesen ChartView and Jeppesen can provide those charts which include coverage for Australia.

Thanks,
Brian