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  #21  
Old 08-18-2014, 09:10 AM
Neal@F14's Avatar
Neal@F14 Neal@F14 is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Wichita Falls, TX
Posts: 2,182
Default

As Walt mentioned earlier, check that the fuel tanks weren't sealed with sloshing sealant. Also just check for fuel tank leaks period. Seems like every used RV that has showed up as a "new to someone" airplane at my airport recently has had some amount of fuel tank leakage. We just pulled the tanks off the newest "arrival" this past weekend, and sure enough, the cork gaskets under the sending units are dried and cracked.
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Airplaneless once again...
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  #22  
Old 08-18-2014, 01:30 PM
Spindrift Spindrift is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 298
Default A few things I've learned...

I bought my flying RV7 about 4 years (and 350+ hrs) ago after completing most of an RV7A airframe and selling the project to a guy in South Africa. To the point of compatibility mentioned before, I definitely agree. I was way more compatible with the guy I sold to, and we've kept up and he is now flying the completed airplane. The guy I bought from not-so-much.

I had a thorough pre-buy with someone very familiar with RV's, and I was there as well and familiar from my project, but many things turned up later that showed average or worse craftsmanship that required re-work. For example:
- ties between rudder pedals and rudder cables were aluminum instead of steel as called for in the plans
- rudder stops followed the plans, which means they didn't work right. The plans are notoriously bad for that part.
- some wiring not properly grounded
- fresh oil change prior to pre-buy -- not sure if this was intentional, but we found metal in the first oil change after 25 hours. Long story short, I now have a new engine. Ask for oil analysis history or even have your own done.
- heavy wing, solved with standard technique of squeezing the aileron, but the builder should have fixed during phase 1. As mentioned, I was way too in to the honeymoon/RV-Grin phase during my test flight to notice, but flying back across the country after buying it was very obvious.
- static port not positioned per the plans. Airspeeds are still accurate, but lazy on the part of the builder.

Some other details worth looking out for:
- baffle cracks around the #4 cylinder. This is very common if not reinforced, and my fault for not doing when I installed the new engine. Rebuilt with reinforcement over the winter
- one of the brake lines was rubbing on something, wore through and I lost brake pressure, thankfully at low speed while taxiing in for my condition inspection

Could be some other things but that's what comes to mind.

Good luck!
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bill
RV7A QB kit -- sold and now flying in S. Africa
RV7 purchased flying

"A pilot just bides his time until his plane can take him away again, into the air"
-- Jake Grafton (Stephen Coonts, Flight of the Intruder)
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  #23  
Old 08-18-2014, 02:23 PM
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DougJ DougJ is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Prather, CA
Posts: 191
Default I learned a few things too.

I bought an early RV-6, completed in June of 1993. Rob Ray, aka Smokyray was helping me through the process, and as it happened knew the owner/builder of the airplane.

Overall it's a solid airplane, as I expected it to be after talking with Rob about it. The owner/builder is a A&P/IA, but didn't follow the Vans specific items very closely after completion, so several SB's had not been done. On an EAB I didn't consider this a major issue, as I could take care of them myself and get to know the airplane as I did so.

I had two big things I was concerned with on the airplane. One was the fuel tanks, as with all of the RV's of this vintage, they were sloshed. I've come to understand that "slosh" done correctly isn't automatically a bad deal. The compound was applied carefully, and only where required. When you inspect the inside of the tanks IAW the SB, slosh can only be seen where it was applied directly to the joints. The only sloshing occured on the aft tank wall. The tanks are completely leak free after 21 years / 460 hours and I've never seen even a spec of slosh compound in a sample or the gascollator. The other item was the low time on the engine. At 20 years the airplane and engine had 325 hours, so I was concerned with the possiblity of corrosion in there. There was a bit of a leap of faith required on that issue, but oil samples have since shown great numbers.

Besides the pre-purchase inspection of the engine, airfame, logbooks, etc. like you're going to do on any airplane, look hard at the build quality. Get someone like Rob to provide some guidance or do it for you. His tips were right on and very helpful. I looked at a 1996 vintage -6 and the things Rob said to look for that would help indicate build quality were very obvious once you knew where to look, and I never considered buying that airplane.

Does it look like it's been well cared for? Is it neat, clean and fresh looking under the cowling? That's no guarentee it's in good shape, but if it looks rough, dirty and neglected then you can be fairly sure it's just that...

Go the the Van's website download and print all the SB's that apply to the RV-7. That's eduational if nothing else.

Good luck!

Doug
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  #24  
Old 12-12-2014, 12:11 PM
Bo1000 Bo1000 is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Austin
Posts: 28
Default Gain confidence with an experienced, objective inspector

Many on the forum are experienced builders who can assess construction & maintenance easily. But like some others here, I'm a newbie interested in owning and flying an RV, and I've realized I don't even know what I don't know regarding build and maintenance quality. "Snowman rivets"?? How could I confidently shop, buy, and own?

Well, I recently came across a 9A that looked good, so I looked around for a trustworthy, experienced pre-buy inspector. I chose Jesse Saint at Saint Aviation, had the plane flown to him, and attended the inspection. As he worked his way through the plane, he commented on the good and the bad and pointed things out. We looked at the logs; looked under panels, inside the cylinders, at the wiring and plumbing; checked SB compliance; did a test flight; made some minor repairs on-the-spot. Here's what I really liked about this experience:

1. I got a hands-on crash course in RV construction and maintenance.
2. Much of the work was done by 2 RV-experienced pilots, meaning there were actually 6 eyeballs sweeping the plane.
3. Jesse has a Rolodex in his pocket. When an engine question arose, Jesse speed-dialed Allen Barrett at Barrett Precision Engines and had the answer in 3 minutes. He's also very helpful in offering solutions (eg, "Here's what I'd do..."), even with ways to structure the purchase deal.
4. The price was extremely reasonable, especially considering 3 people were inspecting.
5. The whole process took about 4-5 hours including lunch.
6. Bonuses: I got to tour the Maverick Flying Car factory next door, and I flew with the famous Ted Chang.

Most importantly, I feel more confident with my choice of planes (unlike some of the planes in this thread, the plane Jesse checked was pretty much cherry). So if you're inexperienced like I am and you're interested in a plane, find a good inspector and tag along. (And by the way, it was also fun!)

Bo
Austin TX
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  #25  
Old 12-12-2014, 12:37 PM
Saville's Avatar
Saville Saville is offline
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: KBVY Massachusetts
Posts: 1,100
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DougJ View Post
I bought an early RV-6, completed in June of 1993.
........
Get someone like Rob to provide some guidance or do it for you. His tips were right on and very helpful. I looked at a 1996 vintage -6 and the things Rob said to look for that would help indicate build quality were very obvious once you knew where to look, and I never considered buying that airplane.


Doug
Can you list for us what those useful tips were? Even though we may not be looking at a -6 they may be very useful.
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  #26  
Old 12-13-2014, 06:21 AM
Ed_Wischmeyer's Avatar
Ed_Wischmeyer Ed_Wischmeyer is offline
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Savannah, GA
Posts: 1,301
Default IFR?

Be real careful about fer real IFR in a homebuilt. A good looking EFIS is no guarantee of software reliability, for example. Know all the failure modes of all the systems and be able to handle them. Don't assume that putting IFR equipment into a sport plane makes it suitable for IFR. And an RV will respond more enthusiastically to gusts than a spam can.

One 4,000 hour RV pilot said that the RVs were great for IFR as long as you never had to look at any papers. Yes, an autopilot would help, as long as it works.

Just like flying any experimental VFR, the name of the game is risk management. But IFR, the risks can be higher and harder to detect.

Ed Wischmeyer ATP/CFII
500 hours RV
Trying to figure out what to do with the RV-8 panel
And how I can take my own advice.
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RV-9A at KSAV (Savannah, GA; dual G3X Touch with autopilot, GTN650, GTX330ES, GDL52 ADSB-In)
Previously RV-4, RV-8, RV-8A, AirCam, Cessna 175
ATP CFII PhD, so I have no excuses when I screw up
2020 dues slightly overpaid
Retired - "They used to pay me to be good, now I'm good for nothing."
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  #27  
Old 12-13-2014, 07:41 PM
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Arlen Arlen is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: New Smyrna Beach, FL
Posts: 305
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed_Wischmeyer View Post
Be real careful about fer real IFR in a homebuilt. A good looking EFIS is no guarantee of software reliability, for example. Know all the failure modes of all the systems and be able to handle them. Don't assume that putting IFR equipment into a sport plane mapkes it suitable for IFR.......

Just like flying any experimental VFR, the name of the game is risk management. But IFR, the risks can be higher and harder to detect.

Ed Wischmeyer ATP/CFII
Ed,

Are you aware of any data that confirm higher risk when flying In IMC with an E/AB EFIS-equipped plane versus a certified single-engine EFIS-equipped plane?
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Donation to VAF 10.29.18
RV-6, February '14, SOLD December '15
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  #28  
Old 12-13-2014, 11:43 PM
Ed_Wischmeyer's Avatar
Ed_Wischmeyer Ed_Wischmeyer is offline
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Savannah, GA
Posts: 1,301
Default No data but

Hi Arlen

I'm unaware of any data, but such data would be hard to collect. Part of my opinion comes from a day job dealing tangentially with airframe and avionics certification, every day, and hearing stories (not the good kind) about problems discovered in certified systems and avionics. If the big boys have those problems...
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RV-9A at KSAV (Savannah, GA; dual G3X Touch with autopilot, GTN650, GTX330ES, GDL52 ADSB-In)
Previously RV-4, RV-8, RV-8A, AirCam, Cessna 175
ATP CFII PhD, so I have no excuses when I screw up
2020 dues slightly overpaid
Retired - "They used to pay me to be good, now I'm good for nothing."
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  #29  
Old 12-14-2014, 01:53 AM
RV7A Flyer's Avatar
RV7A Flyer RV7A Flyer is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: US
Posts: 2,251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed_Wischmeyer View Post
Hi Arlen

I'm unaware of any data, but such data would be hard to collect. Part of my opinion comes from a day job dealing tangentially with airframe and avionics certification, every day, and hearing stories (not the good kind) about problems discovered in certified systems and avionics. If the big boys have those problems...
...it doesn't necessarily follow that the "little guys" will have the same types of problems. Some issues arise to due scale and complexity, along with process-related problems that are inherent in production-mode processes, which may be absent from "one-off" implementations like E-ABs.
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