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12-02-2014, 10:42 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: West Linn, Oregon
Posts: 1,351
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The Andair 375 is the correct one - you're good. There are plenty of previous threads about the flow rate and its the correct capacity for our engines. It works great, has less moving (breakable) parts and is a lot less convoluted than the AFP pump. Admittedly the new AFP one is a little LESS complex, but it still has several more parts, joints and is considerably heavier.
__________________
CharlieWaffles - But you can call me " Mark"
RV-10
N928MT
Flying - AKA Still Tinkering
Build Project Site
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12-03-2014, 06:28 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Culpeper, VA
Posts: 693
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieWaffles
There are plenty of previous threads about the flow rate and its the correct capacity for our engines.
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I'm not doubting you personally, but I'd like to see for myself some numbers from something to support this and can't find any. I've searched for said threads and can't find them. All I've seen so far is people saying, "I've got it and it works." I want to use this part for the reasons you give but I need to know for myself that it's right and so far I'm not really convinced.
For example, on your IO-540 what is the required pressure and flow rate at full takeoff power? You must have a manual with your engine.
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-Joe Wilbur (N520LW)
Phase II - 11/2017
First flight - 8/2017
RV-10 Build Log
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12-03-2014, 07:20 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Palm City, FL
Posts: 315
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Joe,
Not sure if this data point is any help but here it is. At full power (sea level), ~26gph my fuel pressure is around 27psi with the AFP pump on. With lower fuel flows it goes to 29psi.
Lenny
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12-03-2014, 08:05 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Central IL
Posts: 5,516
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FAR 23.955, 23.991
23.955
"(c) Pump systems. The fuel flow rate for each pump system (main and reserve supply) for each reciprocating engine must be 125 percent of the fuel flow required by the engine at the maximum takeoff power approved under this part.
(1) This flow rate is required for each main pump and each emergency pump, and must be available when the pump is operating as it would during takeoff;"
23.991
"(d) Operation of any fuel pump may not affect engine operation so as to create a hazard, regardless of the engine power or thrust setting or the functional status of any other fuel pump."
http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx...se14.1.23_1991
__________________
Bill
RV-7
Lord Kelvin:
“I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about,
and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you
cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge
is of a meager and unsatisfactory kind.”
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12-03-2014, 08:32 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Southern Michigan
Posts: 1,966
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I have the Andair fuel pump. Mine is an early version for the IO-540. It's basically a pumped up version of the IO-360 model they had at the time. Off hand I do not recall the model but it has 3/8" ports. I did a fuel flow test because I thought the DAR would want that but he did not ask. I do not recall the GPH it put out but it was more than adequate in both level, and with the tail down in a climb out attitude. Its a nice compact, light weight and quiet pump. That said, if it ever does go south, I will probably replace it with an AFP unit because it is cheaper, is a USA based company, and they provide good customer support.
__________________
David C.
Howell, MI
RV-10: #41686 Under Construction
RV-9A: #90949 Under Construction
RV-10: #40637 Completed/Sold 2016
Cozy MKIV:#656 Completed/Sold 2007
"Donor Exempt" but donated through Dec. 2020
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12-03-2014, 09:39 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Culpeper, VA
Posts: 693
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lenny Iszak
At full power (sea level), ~26gph my fuel pressure is around 27psi with the AFP pump on. With lower fuel flows it goes to 29psi.
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According to the plot in the 24 volt spec, this is right on the line. See page three in spec sheet.
The link to the 24 volt PX375 spec: http://www.andair.co.uk/wp-content/p...375-TC-28V.pdf
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillL
23.955 "The fuel flow rate for each pump system ... for each reciprocating engine must be 125 percent of the fuel flow required by the engine at the maximum takeoff power ... "
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And this seems to settle it in my mind. The stock Andair 375 pump is a little too close for comfort. I'm going to wait and hear what the difference in price is on having the PX375 pump modified. I'll post the answer when it comes. In the mean time I'm going to contact AFP and get a price on a pump and filter from them.
__________________
-Joe Wilbur (N520LW)
Phase II - 11/2017
First flight - 8/2017
RV-10 Build Log
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12-03-2014, 12:53 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Salmon Arm, BC
Posts: 933
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On take off my 540 shows initially shows 22 - 25 psi at 25 - 26 gph without the boost pump. Then the VP200 kicks in the boost pump and the psi jumps up. Engine does not falter which leads me to believe it will run fine at takeoff power with 22 psi. YMMV.
__________________
Mark Olson
1987 RV-4 Sold
2003 Super Decathlon - Sold
F1 EVO Rocket, first flight May 31/14
First in line for the Sonex JSX-2T kit
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12-03-2014, 03:44 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,516
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AFP
IO-540 26GPH at 25psi on take off.
Testing the output on my installation, the pump delivers 51 GPH to an elevated position 4 feet above the fuel pick up.
This would simulate a "vertical " take off.
The pump delivers 200% of the fuel required to run an IO 540.
__________________
Ernst Freitag
RV-8 finished (sold)
RV-10 Flyer 600 plus hours
Running on E10 mogas
Don't believe everything you know.
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12-03-2014, 04:55 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Central IL
Posts: 5,516
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N427EF
IO-540 26GPH at 25psi on take off.
Testing the output on my installation, the pump delivers 51 GPH to an elevated position 4 feet above the fuel pick up.
This would simulate a "vertical " take off.
The pump delivers 200% of the fuel required to run an IO 540.
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Sooo, Ernst, I think I missed something here. It appears you say it delivers 51 gph at 48" of fuel, 35" h2o or 1.26 PSI? Doesn't it need to be at 25 psi so the engine will run when the mechanical pump fails?
This argument would be sound if you assume the mechanical pump is in series and the only function of the boost pump is to feed it. But does not seem to be the total function of the boost pump. If it was a carburetor system, then, all might be ok.
Can you help clarify?
__________________
Bill
RV-7
Lord Kelvin:
“I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about,
and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you
cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge
is of a meager and unsatisfactory kind.”
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12-03-2014, 06:56 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 316
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Pump flow specs.
If you want pump flow specs, on our pump and others You can email me at don@airflowperformance.com and I can send you the data. Only the facts.
Don
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