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  #11  
Old 11-19-2014, 07:09 PM
Relentless's Avatar
Relentless Relentless is offline
 
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Location: San Luis Obispo
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Default Sorry cold air induction does little...

Quote:
Originally Posted by WVM View Post
Hi,
Is there anyone that did those modification, maybe has a blog available as a reference for me? Any general advice on this topic is more than welcome!

Thank you!
This came to a huge surprise to me but in the past year I have personally tested over 80 engine configurations on our dyno. For 360 cuin or less the cold air induction does little if anything to improve performance. The stroked 370 and 409 need more air and there is some improvement.
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Last edited by Relentless : 11-19-2014 at 07:10 PM. Reason: wrong
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  #12  
Old 11-20-2014, 04:41 AM
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DanH DanH is offline
 
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Short pause for clarification....

"Cold air intake" can have several meanings, and it's easy for new builders to get confused.

Without question, we always want to supply outside air to the engine, rather than the very hot air from inside the cowl. The HP difference is significant. In general, there are two Vans-supplied methods to bring in outside air, the vertical induction airbox, and the horizontal induction snorkel. There are also lots of builder and vendor variations, most of which claim the benefit of "ram air". A well sealed outside air source can indeed be configured to convert some dynamic pressure to increased static pressure, i.e. raise manifold pressure at higher speeds.

The Vans horizontal induction snorkel does a pretty good job of dynamic pressure recovery, as it feeds directly from the left cooling air intake. It is also easy to live with long term, as it has proven to be very durable, and doesn't impact cowl removal or installation.

Kevin Horton photo:


The standard Vans vertical induction airbox has shown some maintenance issues, and can complicate cowl installation. However, there are thousands of them out there, and with a little care they work fine.

Romeo Lima photo:


Cold air engine manifolds are a separate subject. The supposed goal is to separate the heat of the oil sump from the intake tract, thus providing cooler air to the cylinder. A lot of us consider significant air heating to be unlikely, and discount that aspect. The real benefit (when and if it is shown to exist on a dyno) is more likely based in slightly increased mass airflow, and with some manifolds, the ability to mount a larger throttle body.

This is a Superior "cold air" intake and sump...


...and a Sky Dynamics "cold air" intake and sump:


The new oil sump may have its own advantages, like better oil pickup or inverted plumbing. That can make the intake manifold replacement worth the trouble even if it doesn't add anything.

We now return you to your regular programming...
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  #13  
Old 11-20-2014, 04:54 AM
WVM WVM is offline
 
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Location: Belgium
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Yesterday I again contacted VANS to get a clear view on this. They were not really happy to reopen the subject as I already discussed it in great detail earlier, but anyhow, it made it much more clear.

They state that my engine is not a common engine and basically when I read between the lines, all they are saying is that they can not ensure that it will work. It is up to me.

But then I noticed the dimensions on the IO-320 and the IO-360 from Superior. The IO-360 is only a bit wider than the IO-320. This looks more like an advantage for the IO-320 to me.

A friend is finishing an RV-7 with the IO-360 version of the engine. He used the special RV-7 cowling for the IO-360-M1B and option FAB-HORIZ INDUCTION-1. He also has a sump and horizontal induction. As the fuselage for the RV7 and RV9 are the same, correct me if I wrong, this means that the cowling for the IO-360-M1B should fit as nice on my RV-9, as it does on this RV-7. When it is really true that the engine is only a bit different in width, then the snorkel should fit as well. I followed his installation closely and there was no big difficulty in the installation.

The only difference now is that VANS had an exhaust option "EA EXH 7/7A SUPERIOR", which doesn't seems to exist anymore. For this I need to contact Vetterman Exhaust.

In summary I think that it is really a matter of VANS remaining on the safe side to avoid any discussions later.

I am just waiting on the confirmation from my engine shop to really be 100% sure that the IO-360 and IO-320 are the same. If that is true, then there is no reason to no buy the horizontal induction with sump.

According to the shop I can expect a 5% increase in power over the vertical induction without sump. That this is something really required for an RV-9 is another debate. On the other hand I was always told by my instructor, when you have the power it doesn't mean you always need to use it, but when it is required on a specific situation it can safe your ***.

Please correct me if I may missing something in this.

Note: You may wonder why all the hassle and not use a IO-360 like my friend? This is not allowed in my country. We can only use what is approved by the kit supplier (VANS).

Many thanks all for your comments!
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Last edited by WVM : 11-20-2014 at 04:59 AM.
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  #14  
Old 03-12-2016, 07:01 PM
Mother Mother is offline
 
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Location: Kansas City, MO
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Default Servo insulator

I am fitting the horizontal induction snorkel on my RV6. I currently have a phenolic spacer installed between the fuel servo and the Superior cold air sump. The spacer with additional gasket moves the servo forward about 1/4 inch. Do I need the spacer as an insulator? If the spacer is a thermal insulator it seems redundant with a cold air sump. I could use the 1/4 inch to gain a better fit for the filter end of the snorkel. What has been your experience?

P.S. I'm the guy tooling up to race the Bonanza F-33.
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  #15  
Old 03-12-2016, 09:01 PM
SHIPCHIEF SHIPCHIEF is offline
 
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Location: Seattle
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'Mother'; I'm not using the insulator, the space behind the lower cowl is limited.
'WVM'; If you check the link in my signature, you will see a simple but effective 'straight in' ram air scoop using some common aftermarket auto parts. The scoop fairing is a rough (but very effective) Dan Horton inspired fiberglass molding over a clay plug.
The chin scoop comes off with 6 screws, the air filter canister pulls out, and the lower cowl is free to drop away after the hinge pins are removed.
It's good for at least 3/4" Hg intake manifold pressure increase, observed at full throttle as speed builds up. I did not incorporate a filter bypass or secondary air source.
The Superior cold air sump 'may not' provide a horsepower increase, but it is about 9 pounds lighter than the stock setup, and has a very well thought out sump with threaded & plugged ports for inverted oil, and threaded mount pads for the control cables.
Perhaps you will see something useful for your project; if so use it, improve it and share it with us.
I have been pleased with the Superior Cold Air horizontal intake sump, the Pmag and the Airflow Performance Fuel Injection.
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Last edited by SHIPCHIEF : 03-12-2016 at 09:11 PM. Reason: sp
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  #16  
Old 03-12-2016, 09:07 PM
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airguy airguy is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SHIPCHIEF View Post
The Superior cold air sump 'may not' provide a horsepower increase, but it is about 9 pounds lighter than the stock setup, and has a very well thought out sump with threaded & plugged ports for inverted oil, and threaded mount pads for the control cables.
That's why I installed mine - not for any temperature savings, it's really more of a marketing thing than thermodynamics on that point. My install was going to be nose-heavy from the word "GO" so I did a lot of things to minimize weight and shift loads aft to keep the CG where it needed to be. I have a lot of things in the tail or behind the baggage bulkhead that most folks would have in the panel area but it works.
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Built an off-plan RV9A with too much fuel and too much HP. Should drop dead any minute now.
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