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11-16-2014, 05:31 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: San Diego, California
Posts: 291
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So what is the budget for amps in an S-LSA RV12?
1.)How many for each Skyview?
2.)How many for fuel pump?
3.)How many for the radio?
4.)etc.
In other words, how close to the max output of the alternator and regulator are we with everything up and running....including nav and landing lights...and with two skivvies?
EBB
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11-16-2014, 06:40 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hubbard Oregon
Posts: 9,035
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Certification requirements specify that there be a specific percentage margin between the constant duty electrical load of all installed equipment (extra load for radio in xmit, flap motor, etc., don't count since they are short term intermittent) and the expected max output of the charging system.
Dual screens still meet the certification requirements if all specified changes are implemented (relocated voltage regulator, etc.).
__________________
Opinions, information and comments are my own unless stated otherwise. They do not necessarily represent the direction/opinions of my employer.
Scott McDaniels
Van's Aircraft Engineering Prototype Shop Manager
Hubbard, Oregon
RV-6A (aka "Junkyard Special ")
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11-17-2014, 12:39 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Bosschenhoofd, Netherlands
Posts: 152
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I measured all the loads including all options installed and estimated the average load of intermittent loads such as auto pilot , nav lights , landing light, etc.
This totals to 15 Amps.
I was told to use no more than 80% of the available permanent 18 Amps @13.8 Volts according to Ducati specs. (240 Watts)
The same spec says 90 degrees is max.
It is clear I am clear to the theoretical limits.
When I power switch the fuel pump it will compensate for the second screen and I consider it a safe situation.
Problem is the regulator does not meet the spec as was shown in a study of the university of Grenoble. (Available on Internet )
At 15 amp load the power loss in the regulator is 60 watts which is below the specified 80 max.
Without forced cooling or lower ambient it has shown to die well below max spec.
Relocation to the inside may be a better solution but adds 60 Watt heat into the cabin.
The Ducati is just not the ideal choice.
__________________
Jack Netherlands
PH-SEP and PH-SES
RV12 #120519 and #120790
Hobbs 700+ hours and 400+ hours
Dual SV1000 Skyview 15, Pocket FMS and Powerflarm 6.0 (ADSB)
RV10 PH-USN Hobbs 350 hours
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11-18-2014, 12:04 PM
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Join Date: May 2014
Location: Fort Mill SC
Posts: 333
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FYI?
Received from Vans today:-
"The second screen uses the same ADHRS/EMS/gps source etc as the
first. It does provide redundancy in that if the first screen fails
it will still work OK. But if one of those modules fails, both
screens will lose that information. "
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11-18-2014, 12:40 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Woodinville, WA
Posts: 1,499
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Here's some additional technical information. This isn't exhaustive and doesn't fully answer the question of "can I..." for all aircraft:
We (and basically any electronics or avionics manufacturer) make small running changes to hardware in our products over time to support/improve manufacturability. One of those changes decreased the amount of power that SkyView displays draw.
SV-D1000 displays with a serial number of 6000 and above (including all SkyView Touches) draw 6W, or about .5A at 13.5V, less than ones with lower serial numbers. We started shipping these roughly last summer. The lower power displays are part of the reason Van's was able to offer the dual screen option. Additionally, some earlier serial numbers that have SETUP MENU > LOCAL DISPLAY SETUP ? DISPLAY HARDWARE INFORMATION > HARDWARE VERSION 2 would also have the lower power draw (this is rare but worth checking).
Vans' engineering of the dual screen option is based on having two of the newer, lower-powered displays in the aircraft, as all new aircraft would have. In that configuration (with other changes like relocating the voltage regulator, as mentioned above), they've determined that they have the power overhead available to support the second screen in the RV-12
If you have one of the earlier serial numbers with the higher power draw and added a second new SV-D1000 or SV-D1000T SkyView Touch display, you would have be pulling 6W more than the design that Van's characterized.
Whether or not that extra half amp makes a critical difference against the RV-12's power budget is not something I can directly answer. I do know that it's not the tested configuration at Van's. One thing that OEMs such as Van's do is not use the "book values" for power consumption, but test actual installed configurations. In SkyView's case, for example, SkyView Network devices are powered by SkyView, and system configurations vary, the values we list in the manual for power consumption reflect the worst case configuration, but in a sport aircraft like the RV-12 that doesn't have every available option, the ACTUAL power consumption will likely be less. Additionally, know that adding the second display doesn't strictly double the power consumption, again because some SkyView Network components like the ADAHRS and EMS are already accounted for in the single screen configuration.
Incidentally, SkyView SV-D700s have the same cutover at s/n 4000 (>4000 draws 6W less), but ALL SV-D700 displays pull less current even the newer SV-D1000 displays because of their small displays.
Michael Schofield
Marketing Manager
Dynon Avionics
Last edited by dynonsupport : 11-18-2014 at 12:53 PM.
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11-18-2014, 03:42 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 421
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dynonsupport
SV-D1000 displays with a serial number of 6000 and above (including all SkyView Touches) draw 6W, or about .5A at 13.5V, less than ones with lower serial numbers. We started shipping these roughly last summer. The lower power displays are part of the reason Van's was able to offer the dual screen option. Additionally, some earlier serial numbers that have SETUP MENU > LOCAL DISPLAY SETUP ? DISPLAY HARDWARE INFORMATION > HARDWARE VERSION 2 would also have the lower power draw (this is rare but worth checking).
Vans' engineering of the dual screen option is based on having two of the newer, lower-powered displays in the aircraft, as all new aircraft would have. In that configuration (with other changes like relocating the voltage regulator, as mentioned above), they've determined that they have the power overhead available to support the second screen in the RV-12
If you have one of the earlier serial numbers with the higher power draw and added a second new SV-D1000 or SV-D1000T SkyView Touch display, you would have be pulling 6W more than the design that Van's characterized.
Whether or not that extra half amp makes a critical difference against the RV-12's power budget is not something I can directly answer. I do know that it's not the tested configuration at Van's. One thing that OEMs such as Van's do is not use the "book values" for power consumption, but test actual installed configurations. In SkyView's case, for example, SkyView Network devices are powered by SkyView, and system configurations vary, the values we list in the manual for power consumption reflect the worst case configuration, but in a sport aircraft like the RV-12 that doesn't have every available option, the ACTUAL power consumption will likely be less. Additionally, know that adding the second display doesn't strictly double the power consumption, again because some SkyView Network components like the ADAHRS and EMS are already accounted for in the single screen configuration.
Michael Schofield
Marketing Manager
Dynon Avionics
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Ok - good to know. Thanks for providing this info.
So i have serial no. 64xx non-touch, so in theory I could order the touch addition, move the regulator, and have a touch and non-touch and live happily ever after?
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11-18-2014, 05:45 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Aguanga, Ca
Posts: 55
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Upgrade from Non-Touch to Touch
I am on the list to exchange for a Touch screen. I plan on adding another Touch later.
My screen is an early one with the greater current draw. Will my new Touch exchange screen have the old current draw or the new lesser draw.
I read into an earlier comment that the "less draw" is due to upgrading components associated with the basic circuitry. That implies that even with the Touch conversion I will still see the old current draw.
Mr Dynon, comment?
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11-18-2014, 07:13 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Woodinville, WA
Posts: 1,499
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All SkyView Touch displays, whether bought new or through our upcoming trade-in/upgrade program, also do have the changes that result in the lower power consumption. For what it's worth, they also serial numbers above 6000, so that test is still valid across the D1000 family, touch or not.
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