Crankshaft Seal Blowout In Flight and Emergency Landing

[vic syracuse]

I haven't hadmuch luck in convincing everyone to remove these deivices, in spite of my own testing and experiences, as well as some of the other posts here of pilots exhibiting the same problems, the most recent one averting a disaster due to superior piloting skills.

So.... since keeping oil off of the belly via a separator seems to be so important, I thought I would share with you the success I have had with the AirWolf Oul Separator.
I have installed it on 3 airplanes now, an RV-7A, and 2 RV-10's. Yes, the exact RV-10 that I had the problem with the Anti-Splat Aero device, so the comparison is valid. I have NO oil on the belly. NADA. Nothing. I only have to clean the lead off. The Airwolf device is the old Walker Separator, and it is very effective.
Yes, it costs a little more, but in the scheme of things like not blowing out the nose seal it seems like cheap insurance to me. And for those of you for whom NO oil on the belly is so important, this alternative works.

I have hundreds of hours on these, so it is not a 20 hours test and declaring victory.

I wish I had the money to cover the difference in price for all of you using the Anti Splat device as I would do it. But I haven't won that lottery yet.

I just wish you would not continue to jeopardize your aircraft, yourself, and perhaps your families/friends.

Vic

[Gash]

Originally Posted by Snowflake

Now I need to go read up on high-key, low-key to see how they relate to what I do...

Rob, it was not my intention to complicate matters by bringing up flameout pattern stuff from a previous life. The reason I brought up "low key" was to respond to a question as to why I flew the airplane like I did. I simply wanted to describe what was going on in my own head at the time. Basically, when the chips were down, I had an almost automatic unconscious reaction to go to my "happy place". Just like anybody else, training kicks in when needed, and most of my life I've trained to go to certain locations and altitudes relative to the landing point. That's all.

I'm certainly not advocating flameout pattern positions as "the" best way to land an airplane in trouble. It's just one of many ways to skin the cat. I don't think people should change the way they fly their airplanes if what they're already doing is safe and makes aeronautical sense.

[Bavafa]

Originally Posted by vic syracuse

I haven't hadmuch luck in convincing everyone to remove these deivices, in spite of my own testing and experiences, as well as some of the other posts here of pilots exhibiting the same problems, the most recent one averting a disaster due to superior piloting skills.

So.... since keeping oil off of the belly via a separator seems to be so important, I thought I would share with you the success I have had with the AirWolf Oul Separator.
I have installed it on 3 airplanes now, an RV-7A, and 2 RV-10's. Yes, the exact RV-10 that I had the problem with the Anti-Splat Aero device, so the comparison is valid. I have NO oil on the belly. NADA. Nothing. I only have to clean the lead off. The Airwolf device is the old Walker Separator, and it is very effective.
Yes, it costs a little more, but in the scheme of things like not blowing out the nose seal it seems like cheap insurance to me. And for those of you for whom NO oil on the belly is so important, this alternative works.

I have hundreds of hours on these, so it is not a 20 hours test and declaring victory.

I wish I had the money to cover the difference in price for all of you using the Anti Splat device as I would do it. But I haven't won that lottery yet.

I just wish you would not continue to jeopardize your aircraft, yourself, and perhaps your families/friends.

Vic

Vic,
Do you have any more info or possible a picture of the installed AirWolf unit? The Web site does not have much info/picture other than the item itself. I am interested.

[Gash]

Originally Posted by vic syracuse

I just wish you would not continue to jeopardize your aircraft, yourself, and perhaps your families/friends.

Hi Vic, I'm happy that you have found a solution that works for you. It is important for us to have confidence in the equipment we put on our airplanes. But I would caution that to conclude that airplanes and lives will be jeopardized because this equipment is installed is not accurate. The increased risk is caused when this equipment is not properly maintained.

I mentioned above that I had neither inspected nor cleaned the valve fitting for two years. What I did not write was how much I flew during that time. I flew 265 hours in two years without ever cleaning out the fitting as recommended by the manufacturer. I am quite confident that this oil separator will operate just fine and quite safely in the future if I inspect and clean it every 50 hours at oil changes.

The oil separator that you advocate is equally useful. Is it a maintenance free item? If it is indeed an install-and-forget item, then perhaps that added unique benefit would justify the hundreds of dollars of extra cost. Otherwise, I choose to stay with an oil separator that has a proven track record if properly maintained.

[vic syracuse]

Gash, I hear you but respectfully disagree with the statement that we KNOW if it is properly maintained it will work. I seriously doubt there is enough data and time yet to show that it will be as you stated. What we do know is that those of us who have put lots of time on it under varying conditions have demonstrated pretty clearly it has a failure mode that could be LESS than the usual oil change interval. I duplicated failures consistently at 30 hours on my airplane.

Could mine be different? Of course! So could every other one out there. I bet we find that some will fail with LESS time, and as engines age and have more blow by what could have been working at 50 hour intervals will now fail at less than that, and cause a serious unexpected problem for some one. I'll bet on it.

And everyone seems to forget that very knowlegeable people that we all respect tried this over 30 years ago and had the same problems. I know. I am getting the phone calls, and I have quoted some of them here with their permission.

As for the Air Wolf being maintenance free, I don't know that I would trust any item on an airplane to be completely maintenance free. I am not aware of any required maintenance, but I do clean it out every other year, mostly just to look inside. I've never found anything.

I will try to get some pictures as someone asked. Basically, it almost the same setup int hat it is mounted on the firewall and the drain is plumbed to the accessory case. There is an inlet hose that you attach to the rear baffles to pick up some pressure. In aircraft with vacuum pumps they use the outlet of the vaccum pump to supply the pressure. The outlet is quite large in diameter, about 1 inch or more, and it is attached to the firewall and is terminated about 4-6 inches ABOVE the cowling outlet.

Vic

[Brantel]

Seems there is some muddying of the water here as it related to stand alone separators vs separators used with a vacuum valve setup?

Am I confused or are these not two separate items that can be combined or used separately?

Have there been any reports of failure modes with the AntiSplat air/oil separator when used as a stand alone unit (no exhaust mounted vacuum valve)?

[vic syracuse]

So, here goes, and if Doug sees to it that I should be banned from this site, I am OK with that.

It is my very strong opinion that this Anti Splat device installed as recommended and plumbed to the exhaust systems will in fact fail at some point in time and may cause undo bodily or property harm. I have been living this for over a year. I called Allan a over a year ago and told him there was a problem. I was told I was the only one having this problem. Then I was told it was only on RV-10's. I spent over a year of my time and money thoroughly going over my engine, and then retesting, and I continually came up with the same results. And FINALLY, after it seems there are more people with some time on their aircradft, we are beginning to see the same failure modes. And I will bet that IF we continue to see people using it we will hear of more failures.

Most recently, someone on this forum almost got hurt. And it's nice for him to say it will work fine if properly maintained. What about the 2nd or 3rd buyer of the aircraft who knows nothing of this potential Sword of Damocles? And what about the person who is lulled into "it works fine with just cleaning it out every 50 hours" and then something changes that causes more blowby?? I will bet it will most definitely fail in a whole lot less time than the usual interval on that particular airplane.

I posted just recently of another RV-10 that came to my hangar and was just minutes away from a blown nose seal. And that owner (not a builder) said he had just cleaned it at the last oil change. Unwarranted confidence. And this person flies regularly at night and in IMC.

You are all being lulled into a death trap here. I have never felt so strongly about something like this in my entire life. Perhaps it is because I have lost some aviation friends who wouldn't listen and paid in full. Perhaps some of you have seen that as well.

I am justifiably fearful that one of our friends on this very site, or a buyer, is going to get hurt. I've been saying it for a very long time and it almost came home to roost this week. And I am not an "I told you so" person.

Just after my last post, I walked outside and the framed picture in my hangar reminded me, and I know most of you have seen it:

Aviation in itself is not inherently dangerous. But it is terribly unforgiving of any carelessness, incapacity, or neglect.

Vic

[pierre smith]

You know how much I value your judgement. Can you provide a link to your oil/air separator?

TIA,

[N15JB]

Originally Posted by Brantel

Seems there is some muddying of the water here as it related to stand alone separators vs separators used with a vacuum valve setup?

Have there been any reports of failure modes with the AntiSplat air/oil separator when used as a stand alone unit (no exhaust mounted vacuum valve)?

To muddy the waters further, my experience has been somewhat different.

Prior to installing the AntiSplat separator, I had a very small oil leak from my left mag mounting pad; perhaps a teaspoon over 4 hours of flight. Just enough to be annoying, and smear the belly. I was hoping the AntiSplat vacuum would stop/decrease my leak.

Because my welder of choice was not available for a while, I elected to omit the valve temporarily, and installed the drain hose just above the right exhaust pipe. After first flight I was disappointed to find my mag pad leak had increased significantly. Approximately 3-4 times what it had been originally. I also noticed minor oil leaks elsewhere that I thought were new.

I cleaned the engine thoroughly, added UV dye to the oil, and went flying. After shut down, I was surprised to find UV dye streaks not only from the mag pad, but also from virtually every mating surface and threaded fitting. Small streaks, but still there. This was very disappointing

I removed the AntiSplat, reinstalled the standard Vans breather, cleaned the engine again, and went flying. I am now back to my original minor mag pad leak, with no evidence of leaks elsewhere. I really wanted the AntiSplat to work, but it just didn't for me. Not sure why it didn't, but I am with Vic on this one.

Any one besides Vic have experience with the AirWolf on a -10?

Jim Berry
RV-10

[vic syracuse]

Here is the link, with lots of good documentation. I will get pictures of mine within the next day.

http://www.airwolf.com/products/air-oil-separators/


Vic