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10-27-2014, 02:52 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Mojave
Posts: 4,652
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Great job getting it down without damage. That could have been much worse.
I flew home from Az today and aside from an annoying headwind, the flight was calm and cool. I had plenty of time to ponder this plugged valve situation and I'm wondering if a simple vacuum/pressure gauge teed into the breather line would not provide some useful warning. It seems that the coking over problem does not come on all at once, so it makes sense that a gauge indicating the crankcase pressure gradually going from negative to positive would be a good sign that the valve assembly needs service. There must be plenty of these tiny little suction gauges around now because of the glass revolution. I'll bet they'd work pretty good.
__________________
WARNING! Incorrect design and/or fabrication of aircraft and/or components may result in injury or death. Information presented in this post is based on my own experience - Reader has sole responsibility for determining accuracy or suitability for use.
Michael Robinson
______________
Harmon Rocket II -SDS EFI
RV-8 - SDS CPI
1940 Taylorcraft BL-65
1984 L39C
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10-27-2014, 03:07 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: West Palm Beach, Florida
Posts: 167
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Gash,
Great job handling the emergency!
Sorry to hear about your troubles.
Did I jinx you when I said, "this is the cleanest engine area we've seen"..!???
Very glad you got down safe
Regards,
Scott
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10-27-2014, 03:44 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Goodyear, Arizona
Posts: 877
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Quote:
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Did I jinx you when I said, "this is the cleanest engine area we've seen"..!???
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Hi Scott, believe it or not, the engine is now cleaner than before the incident. I used a huge pile of rags and about half a can of mineral spirits and now it looks better than new. Same for the aircraft exterior. The wrap is easy to clean. One wipe with mineral spirits, one wipe with a wet (water) cloth, and it's perfect.
__________________
Karl, Goodyear, Arizona (KGYR) ATP, CFII
RV-14A, Flying
Extra 330LX, Flying
RV-8, Sold
RV-7, Sold
Bearhawk 4-Place, Sold
=VAF= donor 2020
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10-27-2014, 04:19 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Goodyear, Arizona
Posts: 877
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I had a good conversation with Allan at Anti Splat Aero today. I explained the incident and described the coking inside the valve fitting. I also pointed out that I have had the valve installed for two years and had never inspected or cleaned it. Allan explained that he actually did previously send out a bulletin to all of his customers who bought the oil separator and vacuum valve. In fact, he spent considerable effort and expense on the mailings, so it was a serious undertaking on his part. I?m confident that he did his due diligence in getting the word out about this potential failure mode that requires regular inspection and maintenance to avoid.
Allan also explained how to install a relief valve, which is basically the same as what Dan Horton wrote in post #36 in this thread. All I need to do is simply cut the hose going to the exhaust, install a tee fitting, and then attach another vacuum valve (same one that?s attached to my exhaust pipe). If there is ever a restriction at the exhaust fitting again due to carbon buildup, then the relief valve at the tee fitting will save the day.
Now here are a couple of important take-aways from all of this. First, I accept full responsibility for this incident. I?m sure that Allan?s letter warning owners to perform periodic inspections arrived at my home back when he sent it out. I don?t remember reading it, so maybe it got lost or accidentally thrown out with the giant stack of coupons that fill my mailbox every day. Regardless, machines don?t care about owner ignorance. There is no slack for the pilot who ?should have? but didn?t. The system broke because it was supposed to be inspected and cleaned and I did not do it. It?s my fault, plain and simple. Will I ever have carbon buildup in my valve fitting again? Never. Lesson learned.
Second, I hope that nobody here blames the equipment or its source. That would be as unreasonable as failing to do oil changes and then blaming Lycoming when your engine quits. As I explained before, I will continue to use this oil separator because of the benefits it allows. I will just do a better job of maintaining my equipment from now on.
__________________
Karl, Goodyear, Arizona (KGYR) ATP, CFII
RV-14A, Flying
Extra 330LX, Flying
RV-8, Sold
RV-7, Sold
Bearhawk 4-Place, Sold
=VAF= donor 2020
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10-27-2014, 05:14 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Keller, TX
Posts: 1,553
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gash
"I made a right turn to east and began a descent..."
"Winds were calm at Kingman..."
"I flew slightly south of the airport and set up for a left downwind."
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Great job getting down safely. I had a fuel valve failure in a Bonanza once where the valve jammed when I shifted from one tank to another and the engine could not draw cruise power fuel flow. I had to reduce power because the engine was shaking, probably due to being over lean, and possibly due to detonation. I was 8,000 AGL, over Oklahoma (flat!) in CAVU weather. If you are going to have an engine problem that was about the best place and time to have it.
When I debriefed with an instructor later he asked why I started a descent before arriving over the field and why I flew a normal traffic pattern when I had an engine issue.
This is not to criticize - you are safe and that is the most important thing, but were there other factors that lead you to start a descent and to fly a normal pattern?
__________________
RV-8 180 hp IO-360 N247TD with 10" SkyView!
VAF Donations Made 8/2019 and 12/2019
"Cum omni alio deficiente, ludere mortuis."
(When all else fails, play dead.)
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10-27-2014, 05:41 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SC
Posts: 12,887
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As the others have said, "Great job getting it down!"
Regarding the Anti-Splat Aero breather tube...
77.4 hours after installing mine, I thought I should take a look at the clamp on exhaust saddle mount, based on some of the comments I read on this forum.
Here is a picture of mine after only 77.4 hours:

You can see that it is partially blocked in that short amount of time.
If you have one of these, I strongly recommend you remove it and clean it out every oil change, if not more frequently, and you may not have an issue. If you have a weld on fitting, you might want to think about discontinuing using it.
__________________
Bill R.
RV-9 (Yes, it's a dragon tail)
O-360 w/ dual P-mags
Build the plane you want, not the plane others want you to build!
SC86 - Easley, SC
www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html
Last edited by N941WR : 10-27-2014 at 05:44 PM.
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10-27-2014, 06:26 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Goodyear, Arizona
Posts: 877
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Quote:
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were there other factors that lead you to start a descent and to fly a normal pattern?
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Yes, absolutely. Here was my thinking at the time:
1. Descent. Oil was gushing out of my engine fast. It's hard describe the extreme flow volume, but it was breathtaking. My first thought was to reduce the rate the engine was pumping oil overboard by bringing the power back. Data download shows that I initially pulled the power to 17" MAP and descended at 800 FPM until I saw I could definitely make the field, then I reduced to 9" or less for the remainder of the flight. Reduce power = airplane slows down or goes down (or both).
I was really not interested in showing up over the airport too high to land and then needing to orbit, all the while not being able to see out the front and wondering how long my engine would keep running. My thoughts were that I needed to land sooner rather than later, so might as well get on with it.
2. Pattern. I wouldn't exactly call it a normal pattern, but it did include left turns to a landing on Runway 21. Please see the map below from my data download. There were three reasons for choosing this ground track. First, my least obstructed view was out the left side of the canopy. While flying to the airport, you can see from the map that I was "hawking" the touchdown zone, wind sock, etc. while looking out the left side and figuring out how to land.
Second, Runway 21 is the preferred calm wind runway at Kingman. The last thing I wanted to do was to go beak-to-beak with a Pietenpol with no radio. Just because you're an emergency aircraft and you "can" do something doesn't mean that you "should". If my engine had already quit, then of course I would have landed on any piece of concrete, but I was still alright.
Third, from a previous life, I flew a couple thousand hours in the F-16 where we practiced simulated flameout (SFO) patterns regularly. There are "high key", "low key" and "base key" positions relative to the intended point of touchdown. I occasionally practice SFOs in my RV-8 too, and am comfortable pulling the power to idle at pattern altitude and bringing it in for a landing without ever touching the throttle. I just think it's a useful skill to keep in my bag of tricks. Anyway, on this day I saw that I could easily be above a low key position, which in my RV-8 is approximately abeam the touchdown point at 500' AGL. Knowing this gave me more time to look out the left side of the airplane to clear the runway and judge distances. It also gave me few more seconds to wiggle my fingers and toes and breathe through my nose to relax.

__________________
Karl, Goodyear, Arizona (KGYR) ATP, CFII
RV-14A, Flying
Extra 330LX, Flying
RV-8, Sold
RV-7, Sold
Bearhawk 4-Place, Sold
=VAF= donor 2020
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10-27-2014, 07:01 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: San Pedro
Posts: 1,013
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Nice save!
Another positive result made easier by a modern glass cockpit and a pilot who knew how to use it. Congrats on your skills and a nice save. Nice to have a Dynon SkyView in the panel!
__________________
Building finally
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10-27-2014, 07:20 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 659
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gash
I had a good conversation with Allan at Anti Splat Aero today. I explained the incident and described the coking inside the valve fitting. I also pointed out that I have had the valve installed for two years and had never inspected or cleaned it. Allan explained that he actually did previously send out a bulletin to all of his customers who bought the oil separator and vacuum valve. In fact, he spent considerable effort and expense on the mailings, so it was a serious undertaking on his part. I?m confident that he did his due diligence in getting the word out about this potential failure mode that requires regular inspection and maintenance to avoid.
Allan also explained how to install a relief valve, which is basically the same as what Dan Horton wrote in post #36 in this thread. All I need to do is simply cut the hose going to the exhaust, install a tee fitting, and then attach another vacuum valve (same one that?s attached to my exhaust pipe). If there is ever a restriction at the exhaust fitting again due to carbon buildup, then the relief valve at the tee fitting will save the day.
Now here are a couple of important take-aways from all of this. First, I accept full responsibility for this incident. I?m sure that Allan?s letter warning owners to perform periodic inspections arrived at my home back when he sent it out. I don?t remember reading it, so maybe it got lost or accidentally thrown out with the giant stack of coupons that fill my mailbox every day. Regardless, machines don?t care about owner ignorance. There is no slack for the pilot who ?should have? but didn?t. The system broke because it was supposed to be inspected and cleaned and I did not do it. It?s my fault, plain and simple. Will I ever have carbon buildup in my valve fitting again? Never. Lesson learned.
Second, I hope that nobody here blames the equipment or its source. That would be as unreasonable as failing to do oil changes and then blaming Lycoming when your engine quits. As I explained before, I will continue to use this oil separator because of the benefits it allows. I will just do a better job of maintaining my equipment from now on.
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I quoted this because this is one of the most professional, emotionless comments I've seen on this site and feel it needs to be re-read. Wether you're a fan of the device or not, the root cause was not inspecting the item due to a lack of awareness. Not negligence, not stupidity, not "I don't care" or "it won't happen to me" but a simple lack of awareness.
Gash did a great job flying the aircraft, remaining calm, and handling the emergency situation. Most importantly for us, he was able to objectively analyze the issue and help make others aware without blasting anyone or anything.
Flying is dangerous. It is up to each individual to determine how much mitigation is enough to make the activity safe for them and their passengers.
Thank you for the write up, the information, and the lesson learned! I am glad you're here to talk about it!
__________________
www.N1017H.com
Tim Huneycutt, Capt, NCANG
PC-12 Pilot
N1017H RV-10 Flying 2019
EAA #: 1106970
2020 VAF Dues Paid!
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10-27-2014, 08:11 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Spruce Creek Fly-In FL.---Stratham N.H.
Posts: 20
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 Hi Gash---glad to see you made it OK---two possible solutions---terminate your breather hose 1/2 " above an exhaust pipe---works well--no maintenance--OR you might consider painting a lovely lady on the belly of your airplane---It "motivates" one to keep it clean---John Fleurent RV-8 (first flight 1998)
__________________
you can NOT TEACH experience-----you must acquire it--- RV-8 (first flight 1998)
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