VansAirForceForums  
Home > VansAirForceForums

- POSTING RULES
- Donate yearly (please).
- Advertise in here!

- Today's Posts | Insert Pics

  #11  
Old 10-01-2014, 05:59 PM
N941WR's Avatar
N941WR N941WR is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SC
Posts: 12,887
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyDale View Post
... Maybe it would work in the 9 with a 360 up front as they tend to be nose heavy. Not sure how the 14 is designed.
Maybe, maybe not. It really depends on what prop and accessories are added. A metal CS prop, maybe you will be OK. A lightweight composite prop, like a FP Catto and things can be a challenge.

I just added a 40 LB BRS 12" aft of the baggage location (and I suspect it will actually be further aft than 134") and the biggest problem with the -9 is the 1750 lb GW. You will very quickly bust the GW and if you have baggage and low fuel, you will be AFT CG with two people on board, in my -9. Other -9's may vary.

The thing is, the -9 has such a low landing speed, if you hit the trees head on at minimum speed, you should be OK.

Question for those who have flown an SR-22, what is the maximum deployment speed? If someone loses control in IMC and the speed builds, can you deploy the BRS with any expectation of a good result? (I would pull it regardless because it might be my only hope, if I were in that situation.)
__________________
Bill R.
RV-9 (Yes, it's a dragon tail)
O-360 w/ dual P-mags
Build the plane you want, not the plane others want you to build!
SC86 - Easley, SC
www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-01-2014, 06:42 PM
Arlen's Avatar
Arlen Arlen is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: New Smyrna Beach, FL
Posts: 305
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by N941WR View Post

Question for those who have flown an SR-22, what is the maximum deployment speed? If someone loses control in IMC and the speed builds, can you deploy the BRS with any expectation of a good result? (I would pull it regardless because it might be my only hope, if I were in that situation.)
COPA keeps very good records on CAPS deployments.

Here's the scoop on chute deployments and speeds so far:

"Tests demonstrate that within 8 seconds all forward velocity is reduced to zero (relative to wind) and descent occurs at about 1700 fpm or 17 knots or 20 mph. The parachute deployment airspeed was demonstrated at Vpd of 133 knots. The demonstrated loss of altitude was 400 feet from level flight and 920 feet from initiation of a 1-1/2 turn spin. Four CAPS deployments occurred successfully at higher speeds, 168, 171, 187 and 190 knots indicated airspeed, and one deployment failed at speeds estimated at over 300 knots airspeed."

From: https://www.cirruspilots.org/copa/sa...s-history.aspx
__________________
Arlen
Donation to VAF 10.29.18
RV-6, February '14, SOLD December '15
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-01-2014, 07:14 PM
N941WR's Avatar
N941WR N941WR is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SC
Posts: 12,887
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arlen View Post
... Four CAPS deployments occurred successfully at higher speeds, 168, 171, 187 and 190 knots indicated airspeed, and one deployment failed at speeds estimated at over 300 knots airspeed."

From: https://www.cirruspilots.org/copa/sa...s-history.aspx
That is a good record. Thanks!
__________________
Bill R.
RV-9 (Yes, it's a dragon tail)
O-360 w/ dual P-mags
Build the plane you want, not the plane others want you to build!
SC86 - Easley, SC
www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-01-2014, 07:53 PM
larosta larosta is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Redlands, CA
Posts: 176
Default Some Thoughts on Ballistic Recovery Systems and Alternatives

I find the subject of modifying an RV to install a BRS an interesting one. While I believe that the Chute O Matic systems are a remarkable improvement on some aircraft. I personally would want on in my Cirrus, Mercedes or any other vehicle that was an "S" class luxury mode of transportation. I believe that the RV may not be the best application for the technology.

We know that the Cirrus BRS is an integrated system that was designed around a requirement for a BRS from early in the development process. Well done!

The requirements for the RV apparently have never included a design requirement tat would support the installation of a BRS, therefore it appears that most attempts at making the necessary modifications to the airframe quickly run into problems. This is the burden of trying to design a one size fits all solution.

Given that the RV airframe continues to prove how strong it is my suggestion would be as a first order safety upgrade to consider one of the several cockpit airbag systems that have come on the market in the past few years. They are light weight, relatively low cost, and require minimal modifications to the airframe to be effective. As an added bonus, it appears that they would not have an adverse effect on the aircraft's CG.

Continuing along the line of the Experimental aircraft and the folks flying them I would suggest that the next line of defense would be to address the requirement actually separate ones body from the aircraft. For this I believe that some effort could be put into a reliable and positive means of separating the canopy from the airframe with a minimum of effort. As experimental designers and builders I believe that this is certainly within the scope of what has been done and certainly could be done to most of the RV airframes should it be desired.

Once the crew is clear of the airframe there are several good parachute systems on the market that could be used to safely get back to Terra firma. A day or two at the local skydiving center would give most users the training, information, and confidence to fly the parachute and probably be in better condition that if they had ridden the airframe down under canopy.

Keep in mind that once the BRS is deployed the aircraft most likely will belong to the insurance company anyway so there is no need to reduce damage to it anyway.


As an alternative the user / builder may want to consider one of the very good egress systems out there from Marin Baker or UTC (Ex Goodrich) ACES II or 5.

Martin Baker - Mk17 Ultra Lightweight Escape System
http://www.martin-baker.com/products...ion-seats/mk17

Just some random thoughts on some of the means to get home safely.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-01-2014, 08:23 PM
David Paule David Paule is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 4,435
Default

That Martin Baker ejection seat is pretty neat, for sure, but I doubt it would fit any of the RVs. And it weighs over 81 pounds each, not counting the pyro-powered canopy jettison system (which hasn't been designed or tested yet) you'd need.

Still, if you had an airplane designed for it, it would provide a nice measure of security, assuming your back survives it.

Dave
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 10-01-2014, 09:39 PM
upperdeck upperdeck is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Menomonee Falls, WI
Posts: 145
Default saved

My uncle was saved by one of these in his Cirrus. Speaks volumes to me. From the above linked page, here is his. The airplane was eventually repaired and flew again too.


CAPS event #27, 30 September 2010, Mathias, WV

2 uninjured; (CAPS Save #22) - Factors: loss of control in turbulence while on approach in stormy weather, Activation: 1134 AGL, 171 KIAS; Weather: IMC; Landing: trees, remarkably the plane wedged itself on branches about 20 feet above the ground, pilot and passenger were injured when they attempted self-rescue and fell onto rocks below
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 10-23-2014, 09:33 PM
cccjbr6 cccjbr6 is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 173
Default

Two Cirrus chute saves in the last 24 hours. No doubt two lives saved today in that midair in Fredrick MD. The streak of "everybody lived" continues.
[IMG]IMG]http://i62.tinypic.com/2me4tp3.jpg[/IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 10-23-2014, 09:35 PM
cccjbr6 cccjbr6 is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 173
Default

Here is the midair save.
[IMG]
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:42 AM.


The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.