Information on P-mags

[pitts flyer]

I have had a Tailwind, a Thorp and currently have 2 different Pitts all with dual LSE ignitions (both the Plasma II and III). Probably over 700 hours of flying between them, and never had any problem or issue, except that I could not get a tach signal from them, so went in each case to a separate hall effect type sensor. All types of flying, depending on the airplane of course. Ditto with prior comments on fuel economy, ease of starting, etc. My RV-4 will have dual EI. No mags, and I prefer no moving parts and prefer back up battery systems--so no Pmags. FWIW...

[Skykingbob]

Originally Posted by FasGlas

On my injected 180hp 10:1 360; I started with 2 Bendix mags, ran fine but not the best for starting when hot. Then I added an ElectroAir to the right and left the Bendix on the left. Huge difference in performance, smoother running and started hot or cold easy. Used this setup for many years, never a hiccup.........

Randy.......so why didn't you stick with Electroair? Anybody else have Electroair experiences to share? The only people i have spoke to about them(only a handful) had great reports on them!

[Low Pass]

Originally Posted by Skykingbob

Randy.......so why didn't you stick with Electroair? Anybody else have Electroair experiences to share? The only people i have spoke to about them(only a handful) had great reports on them!

Used one on my -8 about 12-13 years ago for a period of time and it worked as advertised. Bulky and lots of pieces then. No idea of the system config today.

Currently using dual P-mags. Have been happy with these for 2-3 years. IMO, the key to long life is keeping cooling air supplied.

[RVDan]

I have an 0-360 with CS prop and Electroair and one mag. Very happy with the ignition system. The engine starts better, runs smoother (all qualitative factors). I never measured performance change so can't really say, but I want to think I get some improved power/economy.

They have a mag adapter for timing that is very easy to install, much easier than a crank sensor. Everything except the timing sensor and the high tension coil is mounted inside the cockpit.

They recommend aircraft plugs, which I did, but if I ever have to change the plugs, I will go to automotive plugs. No cleaning and cheaper.

My only complaint is the wire harness (not ignition harness) that they provide. It uses commercial 100 degree C wire, which for heat and flammability concerns I replaced with aircraft wire. I have never heard of problems, but some of the wiring does go forward of the firewall to the coils and the timing adapter. This was my only complaint.

This system is a slightly modified version of a system from the auto racing community. Electroair has certified a version, and the only major change I know of is EMI hardening of the coil pack, and the use of aircraft wire in the harnesses.

On a previous airplane I had a Plasma II system. Dealing with Klaus was a pain and never really got resolution to several issues.

[FasGlas]

Originally Posted by Skykingbob

Randy.......so why didn't you stick with Electroair? Anybody else have Electroair experiences to share? The only people i have spoke to about them(only a handful) had great reports on them!

Ya know what Bob.... If I could go backwards I would have kept the ElectroAir. My engine ran cooler and had more performance then the two P-Mags. The only difference is it's a bit smoother now with the timing being equal L&R. Probably the best setup would have been dual ElectroAir's but I don't like the idea of a total loss. This was my first experience with P-Mags on my plane, I have friends that had problems with P-Mags, too. They have a very small Ford econo car coil that does not put out the power the ElectroAir coils put out. The ElectroAir NEVER gave me one problem, couldn't say that about the P-Mags. Took me more months the I care to remember to get them working. I like Brad and I think the company is honest, and they are trying their best but I wouldn't use P-Mags again. Unless you can compare different systems you don't know how one performs over another.

As for the Plasma's, I've never used one but I've worked on them. Again, I don't like the tiny coils, they fail and are very expensive from Klaus only. I've seen a few failed controllers.

[vlittle]

...the Electroair uses standard GM coils which can swapped out easily in the event of a failure.

[ChiefPilot]

Originally Posted by Low Pass

Currently using dual P-mags. Have been happy with these for 2-3 years. IMO, the key to long life is keeping cooling air supplied.

Similar story here - dual 114-series P-mags, 360 hours, no issues. Each has a dedicated blast tube pointed directly at the cooling fins.

[FasGlas]

Originally Posted by vlittle

...the Electroair uses standard GM coils which can swapped out easily in the event of a failure.

With the ElectroAir you can also change the coils to MSD's Hi output. I did.

[Pittsartist]

Here's my 2 cents

Background

I actually own a company that makes it's own electronic (and traditional) ignition systems. We have been doing this for 38 years. Our work is mainly automotive, but we also do some industrial and we have made certified systems for aviation engine manufacturers in the past (which we abandoned due to product liability concerns)

I own and operate a Pitts Special S1-S with a 0-360 B4A (Fixed / injected). I had about 300 hours on it with Bendix mags when i decided to go electronic.

After much research I decided to go for Pmags (one a time due to UK approval concerns). The reason was that I liked the "self contained" concept, the non Hall Effect trigger system and the build quality and documentation looked good.

My objective for the change was to improve mid range torque and hopefully cruise economy.

My purchase experience was painless, Everything fitted and worked straight from the box, although you do have to plan a little and be ready to deal with peripheral issues such as tach feeds and "secure" power supplies.

The comments below were on the "B" (spark advance / via manifold pressure) curve

My experience in use was that mid range torque did improve (my test was a standing start nil wind from numbers to numbers drag race on out main runway with GPS terminal speed reading. It consistently went from 122 mph to 138 mph over many tries)

CHT went from around 360 to 375 (I did try a little extra spark advance hoping for more top end power - just got heat)

In a 2250 rpm cruise I saw around a 6% improvement in fuel economy

I could reduce the tickover speed by about 200 rpm easily (I run about 470 now)

125 hours of hard acro into the mission they have always worked perfectly.

The down sides were (don't forget this is a bare bones lightweight Acro install)

I could not use the tach i had for 1 pmag and 1 bendix when I made the first change (signal issues)

CHT's went up a little (but still acceptable)

The P mag is sensitive to voltage drop when cranking. If the voltage it sees goes below about 9v it re boots and does not spark. In my case this was down to using a lithium battery a long way from the starter on the Pitts.

(I get around this by using a small battery for supplying the left pmag on startup only)

Bottom line - I'd never buy a new set of mags over electronic again.

If I had good traditional mags then I'd struggle to justify the pmag cost on performance criteria alone - but if you already need an overhaul I'd certainly go Pmag again.

[FasGlas]

P-Mags ARE hall effect, it's on the inside not on the outside like crank triggers. That was one of the failures, the magnet came loose. (Since resolved)

I agree, I would never buy mags before buying electronic. Just the cost of the new mags doesn't make sense over a good EI. But if I was to choose the best EI that I've used or worked with I'd have to say it's the ElectroAir by far. Jeff Rose knew what he was doing and he designed a very reliable, powerful, quality EI for aviation.