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10-06-2014, 06:32 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Dallas/Ft Worth, TX
Posts: 5,686
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Fuel pump, prop governor?
__________________
Walt Aronow, DFW, TX (52F)
EXP Aircraft Services LLC
Specializing in RV Condition Inspections, Maintenance, Avionics Upgrades
Dynamic Prop Balancing, Pitot-Static Altmeter/Transponder Certification
FAA Certified Repair Station, AP/IA/FCC GROL, EAA Technical Counselor
Authorized Garmin G3X Dealer/Installer
RV7A built 2004, 1700+ hrs, New Titan IO-370, Bendix Mags
Website: ExpAircraft.com, Email: walt@expaircraft.com, Cell: 972-746-5154
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10-06-2014, 07:29 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pasadena CA
Posts: 2,484
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Basically, you are dealing with a front mount governor case if you want a governor, and dual electric fuel pumps like the EFII uses. There isn't even a vac pump type drive to run a rotary pump if you wanted to.
Personally, in an RV I'd take the 5lb hit to have the versatility, but probably not in a Carbon Cub.
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Stephen Samuelian, CFII, A&P IA, CTO
RV4 wing in Jig @ KPOC
RV7 emp built
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10-06-2014, 09:23 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 08A
Posts: 9,500
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FWIW, note the left side boss in the casting for a magneto, p-mag, or similar. The camshaft idler gear had to be in there anyway, so a bit of machining, two studs, and Bob's your uncle.
The Carbon Cub has a carb, gravity feed fuel (no pump), and Lightspeeds. Current electrical system is a single B&C alternator, a main battery, and a little 2AH backup battery. My guess is that EFii injection would require an accessory case with provision for a B&C permanent magnet backup alternator, as the power demand includes two electric fuel pumps.
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Dan Horton
RV-8 SS
Barrett IO-390
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10-06-2014, 11:34 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Upland, CA
Posts: 286
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EFII
Negative on the need for an extra alternator with EFII.
And only one pumps ever runs at a time.
Robert
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10-06-2014, 01:35 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: California US
Posts: 82
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Awesome!
How much does this thing weigh? With the Carbon Tubes, you're probably shaving at least 10lbs off.
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10-06-2014, 01:45 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SC
Posts: 12,887
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Quote:
Originally Posted by osxuser
...
Personally, in an RV I'd take the 5lb hit to have the versatility, but probably not in a Carbon Cub.
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That makes me wonder how many Bush Pilots want to fly into the Bush in an all electric airplane?
Dual P-mags is one thing but dual Light Speeds is another! You can at least power the P-mags with a 9 volt battery until the engine is spinning fast enough to self power the P-mags.
I would happily take the five pound weight penalty for a non-race plane.
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Bill R.
RV-9 (Yes, it's a dragon tail)
O-360 w/ dual P-mags
Build the plane you want, not the plane others want you to build!
SC86 - Easley, SC
www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html
Last edited by N941WR : 10-06-2014 at 01:48 PM.
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10-06-2014, 01:59 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: San Luis Obispo
Posts: 199
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R360 weighs in!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickb145
Awesome!
How much does this thing weigh? With the Carbon Tubes, you're probably shaving at least 10lbs off.
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Finally finished R360 engine and ready for dyno weight is 244.4 lbs! Lightspeed coils and flywheel included. This makes me very happy as I know it will push over 200hp, run nicely on lower octane fuel, and within 1 lb of carbon cub 340 this engine will be our best seller
Carbon Cub 340cc in same configuration 243.8lbs......
For comparison, the lightest 409 I have built with traditional parallel cylinders for long ez that I raced this year at Reno was 278lbs... 208hp...
R409 in the RV8 with traditional accessory case, gears, B&C alt, Efii coils, etc. was 294lbs........but 234hp...  .
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10-06-2014, 02:07 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: San Luis Obispo
Posts: 199
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Fuel pumps, alternator, front gov pad, and mag sump.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt
Fuel pump, prop governor?
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There are several fuel pump options:
Airflow performance and EFii both offer dual fuel pump setups. I have been running the dual ANDAIR fuel pump in my long EZ with 409 and it has worked flawlessly, once I put in 25psi relief value. (Andy is working on internally by-pass version) I like the idea of Dual pumps and the Andair weights only 480 grams. If weight is less of a concern I would go with EFii pumps, they are small package and less $$$$..
Alternator with magnesium case:
You will have to hang one out front....
ECi is just about ready to start sending over forward governor pad cases thus giving you constant speed option and still use mag case....
One last item, we are now shipping with all our vertical sump engines our new magnesium sump. This is a copy of the the old aluminum one but made out of magnesium. Weight 7.5lbs for entire sump! That's 6.5lbs off 
Last edited by Relentless : 10-06-2014 at 02:09 PM.
Reason: wrong
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10-06-2014, 02:29 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Delta, CO/Atlin, BC
Posts: 2,391
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So, the $64,000 question (pun intended) is what kind of price point are we talking here? Would be nice to have some idea of whether this is (personally) cost-effective or at least cost-reasonable. I understand that there are a number of things that can change the price, just looking for something ballpark for comparison to other engines (and, yes, I know there is no comparison but...)
Thanks,
Greg
__________________
Greg Arehart
RV-9B (Big tires) Tipup @AJZ or CYSQ
N 7965A
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10-06-2014, 02:38 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 08A
Posts: 9,500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcpaisley
Negative on the need for an extra alternator with EFII. And only one pumps ever runs at a time. Robert
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I beg your pardon. Poor word choice on my part. Strictly speaking, a backup alternator is not required to run the ignition and fuel injection.
Of course, folks who pay $185,000 for a new Carbon Cub SS are, to some extent, paying for confidence. On battery alone, the voltage warning system counts down faster running EFI in addition to ignitions.
Website says 1.2 amps per ignition. How about that pump, ECU, and injectors? And what is the cutoff voltage below which the system no longer operates at 2700 RPM?
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Dan Horton
RV-8 SS
Barrett IO-390
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