Engine Replacement Options

[Henryrifle]

As a new aircraft owner, I am quickly realizing that ownership requires, at least at times, a tremendous amount of knowledge that you aren't taught in flight school or as any part of flight training. While I understood that all of those obligations had to be met like annuals, static tests, insurance, hanger, avionics checks & etc. As a flight instructor and corporate pilot I was somewhat insulated from all the tasks and arrangements required.

I do hope to be a contributor to this site at some point in the future but all of my recent posts have been questions and this one is no different.

I have RV-6 with a 160 HP Lycoming O-320 D2B engine and a fixed pitch prop. It may be time to consider overhaul or replacement. Can you help me understand the practical options and recommend some good ones?

For the sake of this discussion let's assume there is an expensive issue with my engine.

Lastly, I am satisfied with the performance of the plane with the current power. I don't want a solution that would limit the plane's appeal to potential buyers in the future and I would like to optimize the cost to reliability ratio.

The mission for this plane is VFR short duration (<2hr.) flights for 99% of the flying I will do in it. I expect my flying time to be in the normal range for a general aviation pilot per year--somewhere between 25 and 100 hours per year in this plane.

If there is cost neutral or low cost upgrade that you would recommend like maybe an O-360, then I wouldn't want to be myopic by only focusing on O-320s.

Thank you in advance for your help,
Hank

[Sam Buchanan]

Originally Posted by Henryrifle

For the sake of this discussion let's assume there is an expensive issue with my engine.

I would be easier to address this question if we had some idea of what the "expensive issue" is with the engine. Your best option might be replacement or possibly overhaul (there are several types) depending on the "issue".

[BillL]

Sam is right, it would help to have more information. What exactly are you wanting to plan for, i.e. your objective? Are you making a piggy bank for engine replacement at overhaul time? how many hours on the engine now? What is the prop, wood, metal, composite?

Here is a link to Van's prices for new, experimental engines. It will give you a top end idea. From there, a more well defined objective would help others (who are qualified, not me) quantify the options. It is hardly likely that you would not have residual value in your engine, after an "event".

http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/orde...order_form.pdf

[RV10inOz]

If you were to do the engine off/replace path my suggestion would be buy an IO320 through Vans, and a Hartzel BA C/S prop.

Stick with two mags and if you decide to stay fixed pitch go for the Vans Sensinich.

The 320 in a 6 is a sweet option and very efficient as well as quick.

[BobTurner]

I thought he was looking for more basic information, like:
1. Buy a new engine
2. Buy a re-built engine
3. Have your engine overhauled by the factory, or well known overhaul shop
4. Have your engine field overhauled by an A&P you trust.

These are roughly in order of cost. #2 is an engine built up by Lycoming out of new and used parts, while #3 and #4 will re-use many of your parts.

Generally #3 and 4 require you to guarantee that the case and crank will be re-useable; otherwise there's an expensive upcharge. So if you think your crank is defective, #1 or #2 may be cheaper than the others.

[Ron B.]

Originally Posted by BillL

Sam is right, it would help to have more information. What exactly are you wanting to plan for, i.e. your objective? Are you making a piggy bank for engine replacement at overhaul time? how many hours on the engine now? What is the prop, wood, metal, composite?

Here is a link to Van's prices for new, experimental engines. It will give you a top end idea. From there, a more well defined objective would help others (who are qualified, not me) quantify the options. It is hardly likely that you would not have residual value in your engine, after an "event".

http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/orde...order_form.pdf

Are Van's prices not a one time offer for new kits only?

[penguin]

A few years ago I found a whole heap of metal in my oil filter. The only sensible option was to overhaul my engine and re-install, in 2004 that cost $10K. I sent my engine from Texas to Aerosport Power in Canada. Most overhaul companies wanted to sell me an engine off their shelf, some tried to tell me what I wanted. I knew I wanted new 160hp Superior cylinders, plus one or two other things. I could not find many other companies who understood Experimentals, and would build an engine to the customer's specification. I'm still flying the same airplane with the same engine.

In my opinion a 160hp (I)O-320 is the best option for an RV-6. A c/s prop is quite desirable, but is an expensive upgrade ($10K, really needs a post 2000 [I think] c/s cowl).

If you upgrade to a 180hp motor you may get core value back on the O-320 ($5k?), but will have to pay around $25K for the O-360. There will be many other changes that will be required - new baffling (time consuming rather than expensive), new exhaust ($1K), new cowl scoop (how good are you at fibreglass?), new prop ($1K to $3K). So hardly cost neutral!

Fuel injection is a worthwhile investment, but requires more airframe work than you think (electric pump, fuel pressure gauge, poss fuel flow sender), so turns out to be a $4K to $5K upgrade. I would install electronic ignition (say 2 x P-mags - a $2.5K upgrade) before FI.

I wouldn't buy an engine from Van's - they are an airframe company selling Lycoming catalogue engines (admittedly at a very good price). You will get an engine more suited to your needs from an engine company.

There will probably be plenty of other views

Pete

[BillL]

Originally Posted by Ron B.

Are Van's prices not a one time offer for new kits only?

Really good question. I don't know for sure, but I thought you "could by an engine from Vans for installation in your RV" - meaning the builder number/ownership is registered with Van's. I don't remember anywhere they said one engine. I will follow-up.

Edit, Yes, one engine per kit. Drat.

[ALMARTON]

Hi,

Does anyone knows Superior History to tell? I understand that they were closed for some time. Someone has said Lycoming bought them to eliminate competition as they did a better cheaper product. And USA anti-trust law in benefit of competition applied the law and reverted the buy-out restoring the company operational.

Is that it? Trying to raise all the info and comments possible on those engines, they seem a very nice option slightest better performance (power and comsumption - wise).

To little voters on the pool (link to thread bellow) on which is better...

http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...d.php?t=118919

[AK4x4]

Superior air parts was started in the late 1960's and grew until they made FAA/PMA replacement parts for most Lycoming and allot of Continental products.
Thielert AG flush with cash from their IPO purchased Superior Air Parts. Superior built and certified an in-house Lyclone (Superior Vantage) and a line of experimental (XP) engines based off the PMA parts lines plus other parts.
Thielert declares bankruptcy due to financial misconduct and fraud. Some Superior cylinder and other technologies sold off as part of Thielert bankruptcy.
Superior Air Parts is sold to Qingdao Haili Helicopters, a Chinese aircraft manufacturer. Qingdao Haili forms Superior Aviation Beijing with Superior Air Parts as a wholly owned subsidiary.
Superior Air Parts resumes operation, including development of new and improved technologies, but most of the company's production is outsourced to various subcontractors, with Superior ensuring that the parts meet their engineering and testing standards for both PMA and experimental parts.
There's the short version, Russ