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  #11  
Old 09-22-2014, 04:45 PM
RVDan RVDan is offline
 
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It is an interesting problem today, with the wide variation in equipage across platforms. The instrument rating doesn't limit the pilot to glass cockpits with redundant displays, etc, so shouldn't the test address skills for the minimally equipped airplanes?

The practical test standards requires the applicant to provide a suitable airplane for the test and describes the requirements for both the airplane and performance of the test.

The practical test standards address this, page 7.
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  #12  
Old 09-22-2014, 04:48 PM
BobTurner BobTurner is offline
 
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page 8 of the instrument PTS provides some guidance to this question, 'What constitutes partial panel with an EFIS?'

If the right side PFD is totally independent of the left (air data computer, alternate power buss) then using that would seem to be fine. I also see no issue with the iPad.

But as everyone says, talk with the DPE. As you know, examiners ride in EAB aircraft at their option. Make sure to ask about that, too.
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  #13  
Old 09-22-2014, 09:11 PM
Scott Hersha Scott Hersha is offline
 
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The purpose of demonstrating partial panel competency on an IFR check ride is to determine if the applicant is able to safely complete a flight after loss of his primary instruments. If you have 2 or 3 ways of showing the same thing, then as an instructor, I would expect the pilot to demonstrate competency in using the least capable of these different systems. If all you are left with (like in the'old' days) is needle/ball and airspeed, then so be it. If you have a complete secondary backup built in to the airplane that has its own AHRS, NAV system, etc...... then so be it. If your backup is an iPad, I'm sorry, but I would fail that on you too and expect a safe outcome with what you have left. The iPad is not part of the required onboard equipment for IFR flight - except for charting, and you'd better have a backup for that too.
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  #14  
Old 09-23-2014, 06:29 AM
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Veetail88 Veetail88 is offline
 
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Isn't your IFR ticket good for you to climb into airplanes other than your own? Seems to me that the test standards need to be what they need to be, to insure you're competent in any IFR certificated airplane.
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  #15  
Old 09-23-2014, 06:45 AM
humptybump humptybump is offline
 
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It will be interesting to hear one or more examiners' answer.

My instruction had me respond to "system failures" rather than individual instrument failures. An example is: "if you lost your vacuum pump, you will eventually lose all vacuum driven instruments. what is your backup and how do you maintain safe flight?" On a traditional "six pack" that scenario will fail both the attitude and directional gyro. The backup then becomes turn-n-back and compass.

With the fully glass system I now fly, the failures I've been assigned are "any shared component failure". We also discussed the hypothetical full electrical failure.
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  #16  
Old 09-23-2014, 06:52 AM
vasrv7a vasrv7a is offline
 
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One thing to think about and consider in reference to your question, please remember that although the Apple ipad is a good tablet product with versatility, it was not a purpose built product for aviation, and as such may not the reliable piece of equipment for the type of IFR issue that you have been contemplating...

Just a thought.

Victor
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  #17  
Old 09-23-2014, 06:54 AM
novipilot novipilot is offline
 
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I feel the issue is not so much can you fly this plane safely in IFR, but are you trained enough to save your butt if multiple things go wrong. That said, I'd say no redundant EFIS, no iPad. I'd want to see what I could do with bare minimum equipment.

Flying VFR, once had an instructor cover everything on the panel, and I mean every instrument and every radio (just draped a sectional chart over the eyebrow). Was on a cross country and he said - make it back to home staying at relatively same altitude and airspeed. I felt it was great training. Same applies to IFR - see what you can do and train with minimal instruments.
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  #18  
Old 09-23-2014, 07:35 AM
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n82rb n82rb is offline
 
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given the picture of your panel, if I were the examiner, you would be flying with all the screens dark, the IPAD off. since you have more than you need with the backup alt,airspeed, and attitude. just me, but if you cannot fly an approach using those three, you have no business flying the clouds.

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  #19  
Old 09-23-2014, 07:49 AM
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Brantel Brantel is online now
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n82rb View Post
given the picture of your panel, if I were the examiner, you would be flying with all the screens dark, the IPAD off. since you have more than you need with the backup alt,airspeed, and attitude. just me, but if you cannot fly an approach using those three, you have no business flying the clouds.

bob burns
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Here is Doug's panel:


Doug's plane is a 3 screen G3X system with one AHRS. He has no independent backups. If he loses the single AHRS, he is in trouble.

Doug, I would not rely on the GDL39 3D AHRS to keep me alive as a primary backup. As a backup to the backup maybe but definitely not as the primary backup.

I highly suggest you look at installing at a minimum a second GSU 25 AHRS. I would also definately connect up the optional backup RS232 serial link from it to your PFD2.

This will give you screen redundancy (which you have now), AHRS redundancy but still won't save you from a common mode failure that might bring the entire G3X system down.

Of course you do have a partial backup in the GX pilot that does give limited AP functions even if the G3X system goes south. I would practice this failure mode to understand what you would be left with.
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  #20  
Old 09-23-2014, 08:16 AM
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cfiidon cfiidon is offline
 
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Default Have a plan and understand your systems

You are smart to ask the questions, not only for the checkride, but for the real world.

It starts with "What would I do if...", and go from there.

In the steam gauge world of days past, if you lost all electrical you went to vacuum instruments. Lose vacuum and you go to electrical turn & Bank, or turn coordinator. Lose vacuum and electrical and... oh well.

In your case, lose one PFD, go to the other. Lose electrical, go to backup battery. Lose AHRS... use the ipad, or can you keep the airplane reasonably wings level with the GNS430 display of heading? Have you practiced that? In any case, how quickly can I reach VMC?

What if all your charts are on your ipad and it quits? How can you get the info for an approach? Use ATC? Use the GNS430? Maybe both?

If I were an examiner, I would give you just such a failure scenario, on the ground before you flew to understand how much you know about the systems and how you would deal with cascading failure.

One relatively quick solution to your backup dilemma might be to install a pictorial turn and bank where your clock resides.


Don
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