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09-22-2014, 01:11 PM
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I think the most important point to be taken from Van's article is if you think you know better than the designer and incorporate your own safety of flight mods to the design, it has become a single place airplane. You have no right to subject your pax as unknowing test subjects.
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09-22-2014, 01:42 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dallas area
Posts: 10,768
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Well, you might consider that the RV-4 was never designed as a full-up 2-place, with lots of baggage, cross country aircraft. It was designed because people loved the flight characteristics of the RV-3, but wanted to take a passenger along.
At first, Van baulked at the idea but gave in under pressure.
The RV-4 is one of the greatest RVs flying, but it was never intended for these operations.
If you want this kind of machine, maybe you should be looking at the RV-8.
__________________
Mel Asberry, DAR since the last century.
EAA Flight Advisor/Tech Counselor, Friend of the RV-1
Recipient of Tony Bingelis Award and Wright Brothers Master Pilot Award
USAF Vet, High School E-LSA Project Mentor.
RV-6 Flying since 1993 (sold)
<rvmel(at)icloud.com>
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09-22-2014, 01:42 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Mojave
Posts: 4,652
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saville
...Does everyone fill the tanks after a day's flying to avoid condensation? If so then every flight is a full-tanker...
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Short answer - No.
When I do fill the tanks (there is no fuel at my private strip), I generally land and offload all but about 15 gallons once I get back to the hangar. I add whatever is needed for the mission of the day. The airplane flies so much better when it's light on fuel that I just can't stand tanking around the extra weight.
Keep in mind that I live in a climate that is almost completely devoid of humidity - condensation is just not an issue.
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WARNING! Incorrect design and/or fabrication of aircraft and/or components may result in injury or death. Information presented in this post is based on my own experience - Reader has sole responsibility for determining accuracy or suitability for use.
Michael Robinson
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Harmon Rocket II -SDS EFI
RV-8 - SDS CPI
1940 Taylorcraft BL-65
1984 L39C
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09-22-2014, 03:23 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SC
Posts: 12,887
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To be clear, RV's and other homebuilts are "Certified" airplanes. They are certified in the "Experimental - Amateur Built" category.
What they lack is a Type Certificate. Thus there is no pre-defined Gross Weight they must adhere to. Yes, the designer lists a suggested GW, but like those yellow speed limit signs before a turn, they are merely a suggestion.
As mentioned earlier, the builder sets the GW and the GW can be increased by a log book entry putting it back into Phase 1 (Assuming it has the newer Operating Limitations.), tested at the new GW for five hours, and then signed out of Phase 1.
__________________
Bill R.
RV-9 (Yes, it's a dragon tail)
O-360 w/ dual P-mags
Build the plane you want, not the plane others want you to build!
SC86 - Easley, SC
www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html
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09-22-2014, 04:02 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Defiance, MO
Posts: 1,674
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N941WR
As mentioned earlier, the builder sets the GW and the GW can be increased by a log book entry putting it back into Phase 1 (Assuming it has the newer Operating Limitations.), tested at the new GW for five hours, and then signed out of Phase 1.
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Does the data plate need to be updated? Any paper work need to be filed with the FAA?
__________________
Philip
RV-6A - 14+ years, 950+ hours
Based at 1H0 (Creve Coeur)
Paid dues yearly since 2007
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09-22-2014, 06:17 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
Posts: 3,932
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plehrke
Any paper work need to be filed with the FAA?
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I'd recommend the "next of kin" entry on your flight plans...
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Rob Prior
1996 RV-6 "Tweety" C-FRBP (formerly N196RV)
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09-22-2014, 06:27 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Lake Havasu City AZ
Posts: 2,393
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Overload
In the world of charter flying, overloading aircraft, sometimes by obscene amounts, is unfortunately all too common. This is especially true in cargo flying. The unfortunate truth is that usually all one has to work with is the shippers paperwork. it is very unusual for the cargo to actually be weighted where the pilot can witness the loading.
I just finished reading the book by Jerry Mock, who was the first woman to fly solo around the world. Cessna 180, at times way over gross. The book is a real interesting read. After reading this book one tends to look at a 50# over gross event in a small homebuilt in a totally new perspective.
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09-22-2014, 06:56 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SC
Posts: 12,887
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plehrke
Does the data plate need to be updated? Any paper work need to be filed with the FAA?
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No. See Mel's comments in this thread.
__________________
Bill R.
RV-9 (Yes, it's a dragon tail)
O-360 w/ dual P-mags
Build the plane you want, not the plane others want you to build!
SC86 - Easley, SC
www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html
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09-22-2014, 10:46 PM
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Join Date: May 2011
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 263
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Gross weight or C of G
I am new to the RV4 world, purchasing mine in May this year. Having a blast for the 65 hrs since then! Just a little info I have gained in my short time with the new bird.
There are three 4's at our field all below 950 lb empty (948, 944 & 931) and all registered at 1500 lb gross. All 3 are O320, fixed pitch painted machines.
We all are very sensitive to the rear CG issue when carrying a back seater.
Just to show the differences in our 3 planes....
#1 - Pilot - 180, Pass - 120, Baggage 25 = 1464 lb gross, CG OK full fuel to 2 gal remaining
#2 - Pilot - 180, Pass - 120, Baggage 55 = 1491 lb gross, CG OK full fuel to 2 gal remaining
#3 - Pilot - 180, Pass - 120, Baggage 41 = 1464 lb gross, CG OK full fuel to 2 gal remaining
Not one can carry gross weight and remain within the rear CG limit once enough fuel is burned. The plane becomes very pitch sensitive outside the Vans rear CG limit. One of the guys flies his like that often with a 200 lb passenger in the back and him at 220 (over gross with no baggage).
For what it is worth.
Al
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09-23-2014, 04:06 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saville
Does everyone fill the tanks after a day's flying to avoid condensation? If so then every flight is a full-tanker.
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Absolutely not. No reason to lug all that extra weight around if you're just going up for some local fun and acro. You have plenty of time available for fun with 20 or even 15 gallons on board. (If you're going x-c, obviously it's a different story.)
As to condensation, my 4 lives in a hangar in a fairly humid climate, is routinely put away with only partially filled tanks, and I can't recall finding condensation in the tanks in years. I had the same instincts as you in the beginning (fill the tanks to avoid condensation), but found it just wasn't an issue for me. Doesn't mean I don't carefully sample the fuel before every flight though.
Thanks for the link to the excellent article by Van. Had missed that one. After reading that, I don't consider his recommended gross weight as just a mere warning sign.
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