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  #11  
Old 09-22-2014, 01:11 PM
paul mosher
 
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I think the most important point to be taken from Van's article is if you think you know better than the designer and incorporate your own safety of flight mods to the design, it has become a single place airplane. You have no right to subject your pax as unknowing test subjects.
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  #12  
Old 09-22-2014, 01:42 PM
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Mel Mel is online now
 
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Well, you might consider that the RV-4 was never designed as a full-up 2-place, with lots of baggage, cross country aircraft. It was designed because people loved the flight characteristics of the RV-3, but wanted to take a passenger along.
At first, Van baulked at the idea but gave in under pressure.
The RV-4 is one of the greatest RVs flying, but it was never intended for these operations.
If you want this kind of machine, maybe you should be looking at the RV-8.
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  #13  
Old 09-22-2014, 01:42 PM
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Toobuilder Toobuilder is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saville View Post

...Does everyone fill the tanks after a day's flying to avoid condensation? If so then every flight is a full-tanker...
Short answer - No.

When I do fill the tanks (there is no fuel at my private strip), I generally land and offload all but about 15 gallons once I get back to the hangar. I add whatever is needed for the mission of the day. The airplane flies so much better when it's light on fuel that I just can't stand tanking around the extra weight.

Keep in mind that I live in a climate that is almost completely devoid of humidity - condensation is just not an issue.
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WARNING! Incorrect design and/or fabrication of aircraft and/or components may result in injury or death. Information presented in this post is based on my own experience - Reader has sole responsibility for determining accuracy or suitability for use.

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  #14  
Old 09-22-2014, 03:23 PM
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N941WR N941WR is offline
 
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To be clear, RV's and other homebuilts are "Certified" airplanes. They are certified in the "Experimental - Amateur Built" category.

What they lack is a Type Certificate. Thus there is no pre-defined Gross Weight they must adhere to. Yes, the designer lists a suggested GW, but like those yellow speed limit signs before a turn, they are merely a suggestion.

As mentioned earlier, the builder sets the GW and the GW can be increased by a log book entry putting it back into Phase 1 (Assuming it has the newer Operating Limitations.), tested at the new GW for five hours, and then signed out of Phase 1.
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  #15  
Old 09-22-2014, 04:02 PM
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plehrke plehrke is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N941WR View Post
As mentioned earlier, the builder sets the GW and the GW can be increased by a log book entry putting it back into Phase 1 (Assuming it has the newer Operating Limitations.), tested at the new GW for five hours, and then signed out of Phase 1.
Does the data plate need to be updated? Any paper work need to be filed with the FAA?
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  #16  
Old 09-22-2014, 06:17 PM
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Snowflake Snowflake is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plehrke View Post
Any paper work need to be filed with the FAA?
I'd recommend the "next of kin" entry on your flight plans...
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  #17  
Old 09-22-2014, 06:27 PM
jrs14855 jrs14855 is offline
 
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Default Overload

In the world of charter flying, overloading aircraft, sometimes by obscene amounts, is unfortunately all too common. This is especially true in cargo flying. The unfortunate truth is that usually all one has to work with is the shippers paperwork. it is very unusual for the cargo to actually be weighted where the pilot can witness the loading.
I just finished reading the book by Jerry Mock, who was the first woman to fly solo around the world. Cessna 180, at times way over gross. The book is a real interesting read. After reading this book one tends to look at a 50# over gross event in a small homebuilt in a totally new perspective.
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  #18  
Old 09-22-2014, 06:56 PM
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N941WR N941WR is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plehrke View Post
Does the data plate need to be updated? Any paper work need to be filed with the FAA?
No. See Mel's comments in this thread.
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  #19  
Old 09-22-2014, 10:46 PM
RV7 To Go RV7 To Go is offline
 
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Default Gross weight or C of G

I am new to the RV4 world, purchasing mine in May this year. Having a blast for the 65 hrs since then! Just a little info I have gained in my short time with the new bird.

There are three 4's at our field all below 950 lb empty (948, 944 & 931) and all registered at 1500 lb gross. All 3 are O320, fixed pitch painted machines.

We all are very sensitive to the rear CG issue when carrying a back seater.
Just to show the differences in our 3 planes....

#1 - Pilot - 180, Pass - 120, Baggage 25 = 1464 lb gross, CG OK full fuel to 2 gal remaining
#2 - Pilot - 180, Pass - 120, Baggage 55 = 1491 lb gross, CG OK full fuel to 2 gal remaining
#3 - Pilot - 180, Pass - 120, Baggage 41 = 1464 lb gross, CG OK full fuel to 2 gal remaining

Not one can carry gross weight and remain within the rear CG limit once enough fuel is burned. The plane becomes very pitch sensitive outside the Vans rear CG limit. One of the guys flies his like that often with a 200 lb passenger in the back and him at 220 (over gross with no baggage).

For what it is worth.

Al
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  #20  
Old 09-23-2014, 04:06 PM
precession precession is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saville View Post
Does everyone fill the tanks after a day's flying to avoid condensation? If so then every flight is a full-tanker.
Absolutely not. No reason to lug all that extra weight around if you're just going up for some local fun and acro. You have plenty of time available for fun with 20 or even 15 gallons on board. (If you're going x-c, obviously it's a different story.)

As to condensation, my 4 lives in a hangar in a fairly humid climate, is routinely put away with only partially filled tanks, and I can't recall finding condensation in the tanks in years. I had the same instincts as you in the beginning (fill the tanks to avoid condensation), but found it just wasn't an issue for me. Doesn't mean I don't carefully sample the fuel before every flight though.

Thanks for the link to the excellent article by Van. Had missed that one. After reading that, I don't consider his recommended gross weight as just a mere warning sign.
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