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  #11  
Old 09-19-2014, 05:48 PM
terrye terrye is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 860
Default Boeing 787 Lithium Ion Batteries

Yes, Paul is right, Boeing uses lithium ion batteries in the 787. And here's how to fight the fire if the battery has an "event".

http://www.boeing.com/assets/pdf/com...procedures.pdf

Of course LiFePo is a different chemistry and the characteristics are different. But I would have thought that Boeing considered all alternatives to batteries when they designed the 787 and chose the lightest and safest one available.

When a battery has to have an internal electronics sensor/circuit to prevent overvoltage/thermal runaway "events" (read explosion/fire) they are too complex for my airplane.
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  #12  
Old 09-19-2014, 08:38 PM
JimRice JimRice is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Collierville, TN
Posts: 99
Default PC680

I had 200hp IO-360 in my Starduster Too. The PC680 spun the prop well. Even my injected engine, which was sometimes hard to start wouldn't kill the Odyssey PC680. I'll be putting one in my RV-4 when the Excide goes bad.
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Collierville, TN

1994 RV-4 N4WJ (Purchased/Flying)
1946 J-3 Cub N7155H (Restored/Flying)
1946 Globe Swift N3368K (Purchased Restored/Flying SOLD)
1987 Starduster Too SA-300 (Purchased/Flying/SOLD)
1994 V6STOL (Built w/dad/SOLD)

US Army Retired (still working to pay for flying)

When my ship comes in, I'll probably be at the airport.
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  #13  
Old 09-19-2014, 09:04 PM
drone_pilot drone_pilot is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Hobbs, NM
Posts: 239
Default Decision Made!!

Thanks for everyone's input! This forum is an awesome source of information.

I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't overlooking something that I needed to consider. If you go back six years or so in the posts, its amazing to see how much aviation technology in general has changed in that amount of time. I am sure that the Lithium type batteries will be in the mainstream of aviation at some point in the near future.

So here is my thought process.

1) The PC680 is an older but proven technology and appears to be in the vast majority of RV's. Lithium is still a newer technology and there may be more revisions before the technology in aviation is considered mature.

2) This is my first home built project (hopefully not the last) and there is more that I don't know than what I do know. When considering Lithium batteries, I would like more confidence in knowing how things are affected, like safety, weight & balance, and electrical/mechanical modifications. This spells more delays in completing my project.

3) The Lithium batteries have a "cool" factor but appear to be at least double the cost of the PC680 and the lightweight of Lithium batteries seems to be the biggest selling point. If I can save about 10lbs of weight with a Lithium battery, it would be more advantageous to me to lose at least that much from my waist line. )

4) Saving space on the firewall would be nice but.........the PC680 has a home under many cowlings.

5) I live in a very warm climate, so my cold starts would be more of a cool start for the majority of my friends up North. The PC680 seems to have enough cranking Amps for the majority of my starts.

6) I'm using Dynon backup batteries on my SkyView displays (mainly to prevent them from rebooting during engine starts) which will buy an hours worth of instruments in the case of an electrical failure. My handheld radio should cover the Coms. At that, I'd still have to lose my main battery and alternator/regulator.

7) After all of that I ask myself, "What does a Lithium battery buy me for double the cost?" All that I can come up with is about 10lbs. While important, I've already removed a lot of weight in prop governors/CS Props and going with the Catto.

Decision: PC680 for now and I can always modify later as I get more familiar with my airplane. Thanks everyone!
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RV-7A Tip Up Airworthy on 12/20/2016
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  #14  
Old 09-20-2014, 10:40 AM
jay bell jay bell is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Olds, AB
Posts: 83
Default

I am watching the various lithium developments with interest, but won't decide until my existing PC-680 wears out. It has been perfect so far after 3 years / 180 hours and no special charging.

I don't think you will have a CG problem with your angle valve. I have a similar plane with lighter engine. (7-A, tip-up, painted, single Skyview, Catto prop, PC-680, and parallel valve IO-360). My CG is in the middle of the range for local cruising with a passenger, and at the rear of the allowable range with passenger, full baggage, and low fuel. (End of long cross country flight).

Jay
C-FXPT
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  #15  
Old 09-20-2014, 02:53 PM
Pittsartist Pittsartist is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 160
Default

I've been running a Lithium nanaphosphate battery on my Pitts Special for 2 1/2 years now.

In my opinion its the cheapest way there is to get weight off an aeroplane (or address CG problems) ..... apart from eating salad maybe

By my calculation it saved 14.1 lb over the PC680 it replaced.

It has worked perfectly, but it's not without some issues - mainly voltage drop and not firing pmags when cranking.

Here's the thread I started when I first fitted it - there's been lots of discussion

My final comment is that I've fitted a PC680 to my new RV, but I'd still go with the lithium for an acro machine (where weight is more critical)

http://www.biplaneforum.com/showthread.php?t=6119
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  #16  
Old 09-21-2014, 12:11 AM
grayforge's Avatar
grayforge grayforge is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Kirkland, WA
Posts: 886
Default

I think dropping 10lbs for an extra $230 is a bargain compared to the price of the plane. And if you're willing to drop 10lbs of personal weight, there's 20lbs. :-)
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