The ADS-B System is flawed

[Buggsy2]

Originally Posted by FasGlas

I'm not quite sure how Auto efficiency has anything to do with Aviation efficiency

You brought up a GPS-tracking study in SF for cars...now what that has to do with the price of tea in China I'm not sure, but I explained why governments are looking into alternate ways of paying for highways through other than the traditional gasoline tax.

Funny how the FAA recently made all aircraft a 5 year mandatory registration. In their own words they said they need to know where ALL the aircraft are.

That came about after 9/11 when Congress got PO'ed that the FAA didn't even know how many aircraft were flying in the US and where they were located.

Hopefully ADS-B will be lobbied out like the 406 ELT.

Not a chance.

[FasGlas]

Originally Posted by Buggsy2

You brought up a GPS-tracking study in SF for cars...now what that has to do with the price of tea in China I'm not sure, but I explained why governments are looking into alternate ways of paying for highways through other than the traditional gasoline tax.

That came about after 9/11 when Congress got PO'ed that the FAA didn't even know how many aircraft were flying in the US and where they were located. Not a chance.

Ya know Ralph, I don't want to flame here but, you really need to wake up and smell the coffee. If you really think the FAA needs to know where every Cessna 150 is and whether it flys or not, every 5 years.. And if you really think the government spends our tax dollars wisely and needs to find more ways to suck it from all of us for our own good.. And ADS-B is never going to be a source to tax the "Rich aircraft owners" even more.. And you don't see connection between GPS tracking in cars for more taxes and ADS-B... Ralph, you've got Ray Charles syndrome.
Just how many Cessna 150's have mid-aired with a 747 in the last 25 years? None. And everyone will require an expensive certified ADS-B installation to fly anywhere other then rural areas. Most owners with a $20K plane won't install a $10K ADS-B system.
Re-registering aircraft every 5 years is no indication of how many aircraft there are and where they are flying. It only indicates how many owners pay the 5 bucks every 5 years.
The feds said 406 will be mandatory and it got tossed in the end. ADS-B rules will be changed as the date gets closer. Guaranteed.

-Flame out- No disrespect.

[jjhoneck]

Originally Posted by KatieB

Respectfully I disagree with you here Jay. You and I have worked closely to get your system working and I know you're frustrated. However, you were the first one to respond to Jim from the FAA when he CAME TO US on his own a few months back, so you know at least one person is there to help.
.

I have acknowledged, both here an in other forums, that to date Jim is the ONLY person in the FAA that I have discovered who knows (or cares) about ADS-B as it applies to general aviation. There may be others out there, but I have not found them, and it's not for a lack of trying.

And I don't mean to imply that there aren't plenty of FAA types who are eager to explain how the system will work in 2020. Those folks were everywhere at Oshkosh. I'm talking about someone who can help you with a current installation in the current airspace system.

Unfortunately, a guy who can run written reports after the fact is simply not very helpful when you're trying to troubleshoot an ADS-B installation. To date, I have found NO ONE in the FAA who knows (or cares) about day to day, hour to hour, minute to minute operation of the ADS-B system. The two controlling bodies -- ATC and Flight Service -- simply do not know or care at this time.

Which means that in the real world we have no idea if the system is up, down, or sideways in any given sector. If you suddenly have no traffic, it is quite impossible to determine why.

Which is why we have been using a dual redundant system to crosscheck each other. When the GRT system fails to display traffic, but the Nexus 7/GDL-39 does -- we assume (and rightly so) that there is a problem with the SkyRadar/GRT Horizon/TT-22 system.

When the GRT shows traffic, and the Nexus 7 does not, we presume there's a glitch with the GDL-39/Garmin Pilot system

When they BOTH fail to display traffic/weather, as happens often, we presume the ADS-B system itself is to blame. However, in the absence of real-time reporting from the FAA, we have no real-time data, and are thus left guessing.

My advice to anyone thinking of upgrading: WAIT. Don't throw your money away until the system is operational and the controlling bodies have implemented two-way reporting of outages. You'll save yourself a lot of time and grief.

[Walt]

Jay,
Perhaps its just your location, I've done quite a bit of flying with ADS-B for 2 years now and the only problem I've had was with one of the first GDL39's that would drop traffic for some reason. The G3X team guys sent me a new one (even when out of warranty) and I had zero problems with the new box.

If you ask me, no one should wait to enjoy the benefit of weather and traffic especially if you travel or live in a high traffic area (which I do).

[Buggsy2]

Originally Posted by N941WR

Correction, they are coal fired cars.

<sigh>The point is that all-electric cars don't pay anything for highway maintenance, hence, governments are exploring other ways of having those cars pay their fair share.

But back to the OP?s ADSB complaint. As several have pointed out it's still in developmental mode...the deadline being more than 5 years away. My solution for the OP is simple. Replace your current ADSB stuff with XM for weather and some sort of collision avoidance system for traffic. Job done.

Me, I'm about to order and install an all-Dynon Skyview system including their ADSB equipment. That's the future, it doesn't bother me it's a few years ahead.

[RV9A Bill]

Walt,
Please tell us the $4k in/out system details.
RV9A Bill

[Brantel]

Originally Posted by RV9A Bill

Walt,
Please tell us the $4k in/out system details.
RV9A Bill

http://www.navworx.com/products-ADS600-B-ADS600-BG.php

[jjhoneck]

Originally Posted by Walt

Jay,
Perhaps its just your location, I've done quite a bit of flying with ADS-B for 2 years now and the only problem I've had was with one of the first GDL39's that would drop traffic for some reason. The G3X team guys sent me a new one (even when out of warranty) and I had zero problems with the new box.

If you ask me, no one should wait to enjoy the benefit of weather and traffic especially if you travel or live in a high traffic area (which I do).

I expect you're probably right, Walt. Up in your neck of the woods, they may have ADS-B on rails.

Today's flight was a perfect illustration: KRAS (Mustang Island) to 11R (Brenham). We departed and had great traffic, even showing planes on the ground.

15 miles later -- poof! First the Nexus 7 went blank, then the EFIS.

Around Victoria (at 9500') it blinked back on, briefly. Nothing showed up in the very busy airspace around Brenham.

After an awesome lunch, we departed. I had traffic a minute or two after departure, then nothing. Again, it blinked on as we passed Victoria (at 8500'), and then we had nothing until we were about 15 miles from the coast. Then, we had lots of traffic, and it stayed on through landing.

The system ain't a system...yet.

[Walt]

Originally Posted by RV9A Bill

Walt,
Please tell us the $4k in/out system details.
RV9A Bill

The FreeFlight RANGR FDL-978-XVR is currently on sale for $3995.
http://www.freeflightsystems.com/

The kit includes everything you need to install it and is a fully compliant 2020 system.

This is a fully certified/STC'd ADS-B in/out system that is ready to go (includes a certifed GPS). Also included is the wifi module so you can view weather/traffic on you tablet/ipad.

I currently have 2 installs going on, one in a certified aircraft and one in an RV7. If you need more info or would like to purchase a unit please let me know as I am a Freeflight dealer.

FYI: Freeflight was the original capstone equipment supplier, they know more about ADS-B systems than most.

[Walt]

Originally Posted by jjhoneck

I expect you're probably right, Walt. Up in your neck of the woods, they may have ADS-B on rails.

Today's flight was a perfect illustration: KRAS (Mustang Island) to 11R (Brenham). We departed and had great traffic, even showing planes on the ground.

15 miles later -- poof! First the Nexus 7 went blank, then the EFIS.

Around Victoria (at 9500') it blinked back on, briefly. Nothing showed up in the very busy airspace around Brenham.

After an awesome lunch, we departed. I had traffic a minute or two after departure, then nothing. Again, it blinked on as we passed Victoria (at 8500'), and then we had nothing until we were about 15 miles from the coast. Then, we had lots of traffic, and it stayed on through landing.

The system ain't a system...yet.

Jay,
Where are your skyradar and GDL39 antennas mounted?