The starter engages (delays) approx 5 secs after the key is turned to "start", why?

[ao.frog]

Hi gang.

I have a strange problem with the starter, and here's the details:

Lyc XIO-360, 40 hrs TT
Sky tech starter
Vans Master and Starter relay
Odyssey battery
ACS ignition key (OFF/L/R/BOTH)

Since the very first start, there has been a 2-3 sec delay from the moment I turn the key to "start" until the starter actually engages.

Gradually, the delay-time has increased to about 5 sec's.
During the start this weekend, the delay was suddenly about 10 secs.

Once the starter engaged, it spun the 360 as fast as ever.

The Odyssey battery was bought from Vans together with the engine and the FF-kit in 2010.

I'm wondering what can cause the starter to delay the engagement?
My first -7 has the same setup and have never had any delay at all, so there must be something strange going on somewhere?

Does anyone have a suggestion regarding the cause?

[noelf]

If you have a voltmeter, check the voltage to the starter relay. You want to see voltage at the input as soon as you turn the switch to START.

If you see voltage immediately, then attach the voltmeter to the output of the starter relay. Do the same test. Did you read voltage immediately as the switch was turned to start? If so, then the problem is at the starter. Otherwise, it is the starter solenoid.

Either the starter solenoid or the starter itself can show this symptom, or a bad connection. As an example: if the starter has a burned spot on an internal brush or armature surface, as the starting voltage reaches this spot, temporary high resistance is preventing full current flow but enough current is flowing to cause heat to build up and an arc may be forming. This will temporarily clean the spot and allow full operation of the circuit. It is only a matter of time before the device will completely fail.

[walkman]

The ACS key switch has screw terminals as I'm sure you know.

If one of those is loose it might cause the problem. I had similar (but not the same) problems. Seemed to be fixed when I discovered I had a screw loose.

[Michael White]

Originally Posted by walkman

.....I had a screw loose.

People tell me that all the time....

[lr172]

My guess is the starter relay. The key applies voltage to a winding. When engergized, this winding pulls the plunger with the contactor attached to make contact on the high amperage side. My guess is that you have burrs or some other defect in the assembly that is resisting the pulling force of the mageetism created by the winding. This would explain why it got worse.

Do you hear a solid click when turning the key? You should, if you are near the solenoid. Disconnect the starter feed and have someone turn the key while you listen and feel the solenoid. You are supposed to get an immediate, firm click as it engages. Good news is this is a $20 part.

Larry

[ao.frog]

Thanks for the replies guys! Highly appreciated!

I've been at the hangar two days now, doing some checking, and here are the findings:

Day 1:
Volt at the battery with all switches OFF: 12.82
Volt at the battery with battery switch ON: 12.72
Volt on the IN-side of the Master relay: 12.62
Volt on the IN-side of the Starter relay: 12.41
Volt on the OUT-side of the Starter relay: 12.18 (key to "START" and wire to the starter disconnected)
Volt on the battery after a few tests with batt switch ON: 12.58

Day 2
Volt at the battery with all switches OFF: 13.03
Volt at the IN-side of the master relay: 12.52
Volt on the IN-side of the starter relay: 12.45


I noticed something strange:
I measured 00.01 volt on the OUT-side of the starter-relay with the starter switch i OFF-position.
I also measured a connection THROUGH the starter-relay with the starter switch on the OFF position: the ohm indicated 6,5 - 7,0 ohm.
I also got a "beeeep" when turning the multimeter selector to the loudspeaker symbol.

Day 1:
During the very first time I turned the key to "START", there where a 3-4 sec delay before the firm click came from the starter relay.
All other times the key where turned after that, the click came right away.
The starter relay where JUST a little warm to touch after testing.

Day 2:
The click came right away when the key where turned to "START".
Same result during the next few start-attempts: click came right away.

All connections where tight and looked normal.

My thoughts are towards the starter relay. Anyone have other thoughts?
I think it's strange that there where a connection through the starter relay in disengaged position?
It'd be great if someone else could check their starter relays for ohm and beep in disengaged position and post their findings here?

I think I'll order a new starter relay if someone else doesn't have a better idea?


PS: I can't honestly say that my volt-meter shows 100% correct values, but the relationship beetween the different readings schould be fairly accurate.

Thanks guys!

[Flying again!]

Is your ACS starter switched wired directly to the starter solenoid? Skytec states that the switch must be rated for 20A and specifically warns against using the ACS switch which is rated at 6A.

I had a similar issue and took the ACS switch apart to install the rebuild kit from Spruce. The points were burned and caused a delay like you are experiencing and even made it feel like a weak battery. They suggest adding another solenoid.

The way yours is probably wired is shown in this link
http://www.skytecair.com/images/P1/E...iring_1100.jpg

The way to wire it with the ACS switch
http://www.skytecair.com/images/P1/C...iring_1100.jpg

TJ

[cfiidon]

Like TJ said, it is quite likely the ACS switch. However, I'll post my two cents.

I had a similar problem with my starter relay not engaging, and a couple of times it appeared stuck on with NO power applied. Hmmmm. I use toggle switches, not a keyed switch.

My latest theory is that the case of the starter relay did not have a good ground path. That's my fault for a poor installation. If the ground path is high resistance, you get a weak and slow pull which can cause arcing.

Don't know how much you know about electricity, but if you were to have a bad grounding path you would measure input voltage at the "S" terminal of the relay, but there would be no current flow, and little or no magic electromagnetism happening.

I'm not saying this is your issue, but the ground path is another thing to check.

Don

[Richard Connell]

I had a similar issue a few years back after around a year in service. Exactly those symptoms. I bought a new contactor. I went to install and found the nut holding the 2AWG starter cable to the starter contacto had come loose, and backed off a few mm. It had then arc welded itself there. So the nut was tight but the terminal was loose.
Tightened up and been good ever since.
Still have a spare contactor for when it fails properly!

[aerhed]

Bypass the keyswitch and try it. Also check volt drop across the keyswitch running a small load like a light bulb.