Bailing out of an RV-8 especially if you're on fire

[BobTurner]

Originally Posted by N427EF

and all of the RV-10 accidents that I can think of experienced fires post crash.

Well, thank goodness this is not true.

[RVDan]

It is interesting that the NTSB report on the accident with the pilot who jumped, indicated little fire injury to the pilot. If the report is accurate it in fact looks like whatever fire injuries occurred, happened because he opened the canopy.

It looks like no smoke inhalation, no burns, just singed hair. The melting canopy was telling that heat/flame was exiting the cowling and coming up over the canopy. They cited low pressure behind the windscreen, which would pull the fire into the cockpit with the canopy open.

[N427EF]

Well, thank goodness this is not true.

My post says "That I can think of" and I can think of only 3 RV-10 accidents that experienced post crash fires but none that developed a fire while in flight.
To the best of my knowledge only my wife knows what I am thinking of.

Can you be more specific?

One more thought on bailing out.
Your day is going terribly wrong with an inflight fire and you are lucky to wear a rig and decide to bail out. Now it gets worse and your out of control airplane kills a couple of people on impact. My guess is, you'd probably wish you were dead rather than face the legal consequences arising out of your act of self preservation.

[donaziza]

Originally Posted by Blain

So, what about jettison the canopy and stay with the ship? Assuming a cabin fire fed by fuel would be the most dangerous, would the additional air flow excite the fire to a point that is intolerable? Or maybe change the airflow away from the pilot long enough to get near the ground? There is a non destructive wind tunnel test that would be interesting......

Seems to me that the worst aspect of an electrical fire is smoke inhalation. Ditching the canopy would provide clean air to breath. Again giving the pilot a couple more minutes to get down.

Hi Blaine, I'm the guy that started this thread. Before jettisoning the canopy, one has to know if the vertical stab or horizontal stab would be taken off, by the jettisoning canopy,BEFORE you jettison it. That's why I was wondering about a wind tunnel test with a full size RV 8, a 180 MPH wind. Naturally ( as some thought, I wouldn't do this live with a human body on board)

Maybe if one removes the canopy "before" flying, things would be just peachy----BUT no one is going to do that, because no one knows what a 180 MPH jettison would do to the VS and/or HS.

[DanH]

Originally Posted by Blain

Examples, Dan?
I'm not there in my build yet.

In simple terms, don't put anything in contact with the cabin side of a firewall unless proven to be smokeless and flameless at 2000F. That includes paint.

There are lots of vendors selling "firewall insulation" and claiming it meets some FAA standard...usually FAR 25, Appendix F, Part 4. The reality is that it is not firewall insulation, but rather airliner cabin wall insulation.

An ordinary stainless steel sheet does fine...but it glows bright red at 2000F. Anything you place against the backside of it is subjected to the same 2000F. When tested in this manner, without exception, all FAR 25 Appendix F materials burst into flame and emitted huge quantities of smoke. Some were truly frightening.

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http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...ad.php?t=72087

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[Bevan]

But if there's an engine fire while in flight, won't the flames be shooting out along the bottom of the fuselage where there is no stainless sheet, and not onto the firewll except right at the bottom?

Bevan

[DanH]

Originally Posted by Bevan

But if there's an engine fire while in flight, won't the flames be shooting out along the bottom of the fuselage where there is no stainless sheet, and not onto the firewll except right at the bottom?

Correct. Most have burned through the belly skin just aft of the firewall. Ted Chang's RV-10 fire was good example.

My -8 has a stainless steel exhaust ramp.

[jrs14855]

Originally Posted by DanH

In simple terms, don't put anything in contact with the cabin side of a firewall unless proven to be smokeless and flameless at 2000F. That includes paint.

There are lots of vendors selling "firewall insulation" and claiming it meets some FAA standard...usually FAR 25, Appendix F, Part 4. The reality is that it is not firewall insulation, but rather airliner cabin wall insulation.

Read the FAR for GA firewalls, Part 23.1191:
(1) The flame to which the materials or components are subjected must be 2,000 ?150? F.
(2) Sheet materials approximately 10 inches square must be subjected to the flame from a suitable burner.
(3) The flame must be large enough to maintain the required test temperature over an area approximately five inches square.
(g) Firewall materials and fittings must resist flame penetration for at least 15 minutes.

An ordinary stainless steel sheet does fine...but it glows bright red at 2000F. Anything you place against the backside of it is subjected to the same 2000F. When tested in this manner, without exception, all FAR 25 Appendix F materials burst into flame and emitted huge quantities of smoke. Some were truly frightening.

http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...ad.php?t=37012

http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...ad.php?t=72087

http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...ad.php?t=63633

In addition to what Dan says, I am using all stainless steel bulkhead fittings, stainless cabin heat box and stainless shrouds for all wiring etc that is not a bulkhead fitting. Center of belly is stainless for about 14" aft of firewall. (Not an RV) Belly and firewall covered with 2000 degree insulation.

[Robert Anglin]

I road in #2 less than six weeks before it went down, with John.
I have an RV-8A and I am the MANUFATURER. IT is my choice and testing that will get me out, if I can get out. Buttler will build me a custom rig for me and my seat. If I build something to my likings, I would not think someone other than me would be responsible for it. I would never ask Van to agree to this, but I would think they will share what data they have on this subject.
Yours most as always. R.E.A. III #80888

[Bevan]

Originally Posted by DanH

Correct. Most have burned through the belly skin just aft of the firewall. Ted Chang's RV-10 fire was good example.

My -8 has a stainless steel exhaust ramp.

Exactly. I would think the first area to improve (should one feel improvement was necessary) would be to what is sitting directly on top of that potentially hot stainless fuselage bottom? In the case of side by side RVs, there are fuel lines above the center fuselage floor, and carpets (or your shoes) on either side. All of which is going to smoke pretty bad.

I think one practical solution, is to make an insulating sandwich on the "exterior" of the aircraft bottom skin. What about applying 1/8" self adhesive kiln insulation strips to the bottom of the lower fuselage skin. Then cover that with thin stainless sheet to mechanically hold it and handle the heat. The stainless sheet will need to be sealed all around the edges to prevent the insulation from wicking up engine oils.

This sheet can be carried forward into the cowl to make a nice transition to smooth the airflow exiting the cowl.

My thoughts anyway.

Bevan