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  #21  
Old 08-14-2014, 01:08 PM
kamikaze kamikaze is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada
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A second pair of eyes. The person is signing along with you that the controls are operating as they should (are not reversed, have full range of motion, are smooth, etc.). They therefore must witness all this and also be satisfied when signing.
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  #22  
Old 08-14-2014, 02:40 PM
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flyboy1963 flyboy1963 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Lake Country, B.C. Canada
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Default see Vern's link....

http://www.md-ra.com/en/docs/C100_Co...s_20130312.pdf

It is dated March 2013, and says, 'effective immediately' but does not reference a specific change to the CAR's, so we are still a bit in the dark there. Since 2010? Let's just say that very few guys I know are aware of this.

at least this MD-RA version says "...the second person signing must be educated so that they understand what they are witnessing."

....very broad & grey, putting the responsibility on both the signee, to be educated, and the owner, to ensure they qualify.
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  #23  
Old 08-14-2014, 08:58 PM
kamikaze kamikaze is offline
 
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The table says "(amended 2010/12/30)" for the section on flight/engine controls, so it's been there at least that long ... the link to the previous version is broken

I've done this in real life, and it really isn't that big a deal ...

As for not knowing, I'm going to guess this community, by its nature, maybe doesn't follow the evolution of the CARs as closely as the certified world does ... my AME certainly knew all about it a year and a half ago, and I could check my logs, but the previous work on my controls was done right around 2010, and I'm pretty sure I had a double signature then.

I imagine AMEs get notified of these things ...

I wonder f there's a way to subscribe to get notified of CAR changes ...
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  #24  
Old 08-14-2014, 09:01 PM
Norman CYYJ Norman CYYJ is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Victoria B.C.
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It costs money and it is up to us to stay current.
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  #25  
Old 08-15-2014, 08:42 AM
Lupin Lupin is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Montreal
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The requirement for dual signatures has been around for ages. I obtained my AME license in 1997 and that requirement was in the Air Regs. It is now in the CARS.

The context is different but here is how things are done where I am employed. I work for a major airline in Canada, as such, we operate with a Transport Canada approved control manual. For us, the independent check process is well defined. First choice for an independent check is an appropriately rated AME, second choice is a non rated AME, third option is for a pilot to perform the independent check. If a pilot or non endorsed AME does the certification, the system is to be re-certified at the next base where an appropriately rated AME is available.

Keep in mind that requirement is there due to numerous past accidents where controls were reversed with often catastrophic consequences.

Here is what you are looking for:
The independent check need not cover the same range of detail as the check leading to the maintenance release. However, as a minimum, it must include an inspection for correct assembly and locking of any parts of the system disturbed by the maintenance performed, an operational check for proper sense and range of operation.
http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviatio...s-c010-557.htm
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  #26  
Old 09-13-2014, 07:29 AM
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CDNRV7 CDNRV7 is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Canada, well not really at the moment, but where I will build.
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As a helicopter pilot I have been signing "Dual inspections" when required since 1978, and I'm sure this requirement was there long before that. You would not believe the amount of times I have seen gross errors in that time, and not by incompetent AME's, just ones who were working in very adverse conditions.....no one is infallible, we all make mistakes.
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