OSH Arrival Speeds

[Ironflight]

Originally Posted by N427EF

Anyway, I will take the high road next time!

Won't fix anything Ernst - the high and low roads get mixed at Fiske - everyone ends up at the same altitude inside the Class D.

There are a LOT of people out there not following the NOTAM - cutting people off, entering between RIPON and FISKE, not playing by the rules. Deciding that "since they aren't following the rules, I won't either" doesn't solve it for anyone.

We try to pick the least busy times to arrive, and if we can't do that, we arrive with enough fuel to break off and come back for another slot. If that doesn't work, we go sit it out at Waucoma for awhile.

Is that fair, giving up your "slot" to folks who don't follow the rules? Doesn't seem like it - but I'd rather be alive than push the issue - or be a cause for further confusion for others.

Just the way I look at it.

[skylor]

Originally Posted by N427EF

...The result was everyone slowed down to avoid the guys cutting in front of you to where most of the way to Fisk I had the stall warning horn on at 70 or less...
...On base cleared to land #3 on yellow dot and seconds later just before the turn to final still at 70 kts with the horn on, cut off on the left by a Bonanza. "I know he can't fly at 70kts" The controller was quick to clear him for the yellow dot and me for the purple. All 4 of the planes landed about the same time but slowing down at 70kts to avoid the slow traffic in front of you is testing even my limits.

I'm curious why your stall warning is "blaring" at 70kts, a full 15kts above the published RV-10 gross weight stall speed. Did you have your flaps down for the low speed?

Bonanzas fly just fine at 70kts (maybe better than the -10)!

Skylor
RV-8

[daddyman]

Gary,
WOW.
Your response to a simple question came off really harsh.
I had the same question.
Yes, I can fly at 90, and 80, and 70, and 65, and hold off at 60.
But that wasn't the point.
Your reference to the stickers? What's up with that?
So, only "OSH "Vets are allowed in now?
Daddyman

[BillL]

I was listening on LiveATC for several hours on the first saturday. There were a few IFR inbounds that got dropped in the middle of the mix. I don't know how many there were, but I has happened to me on occasion in the past (not OSH) and I suddenly got a very large view of a yellow J3 up very close.

Could they be IFR conversions to VFR that drop into the mix? I admit that I did not read the NOTAM on this (as I did not fly in). I used the RT26 Arrival.

I did hear a lot of guys that clearly did not read/heed the NOTAM.

[N427EF]

Is that fair, giving up your "slot" to folks who don't follow the rules? Doesn't seem like it - but I'd rather be alive than push the issue - or be a cause for further confusion for others.

Thanks Paul, you always find the right words to put things into perspective.

I'm curious why your stall warning is "blaring" at 70kts, a full 15kts above the published RV-10 gross weight stall speed. Did you have your flaps down for the low speed?

I know better than to question Vans numbers but I believe "63mph" is CAS
not IAS and my 10 stalls fully loaded around 65kts IAS as do most others.
Setting the stall warning at 5kts above stall is a an industry standard.

Bonanzas fly just fine at 70kts (maybe better than the -10)!

I wasn't referring to the Bonanza but rather "he" the pilot.

To sum it up, I was not concerned about flying my RV-10 at 70kts but more than a little annoyed at the large majority of pilots finding a way to outmaneuver those who follow the rules.

[edsong]

Uff. It's amazing we make it every year. I think we're lucky with our airplanes that are overpowered compared to the factory stuff that we can power up and get out of line and renter when we want at Ripon. It's not busy all the time. Go to Wacoma and have a beer and relax if it's busy. Then try later

[Norman CYYJ]

Have a beer and try later?????

[Guilhermepilot]

Do not bother with rude people my friend, they are everwhere, they need to be better than others for some reason, it is better to clarify a question before you go like you did, congratulations for your attitude!

[JDRhodes]

Originally Posted by Norman CYYJ

Have a beer and try later?????

Like - 8 hours later. It'll be better then.

[N8RV]

In the 25 Oshkosh conventions that I have attended, I've flown into about 1/3 of them, and nearly every arrival has been "interesting."

I've been behind the low-n-slow kinds and instructed by ATC to go around them. I've been cut off and had to react quickly to avoid unfortunate issues. I've been upside-down. I've been passed. Even this year, both my arrival and my departure were not without issue.

I arrived over Ripon at exactly 1800' and 90 knots, trimmed and quite comfy. As I made the turn over the water tower to follow the tracks, I saw a shadow above me. A Bonanza was zooming overhead and to my right. I assumed that he was on the higher arrival and would drop in far ahead of me, but noooooo ... he chopped power, dropped his gear and slid in right in front of me! I'm not sure he even knew I was there. The only bright spot was that he made an admirable circle-to-land approach that was in tight, not the typical airliner/Bonanza approach.

Thursday morning, I was killing time for my tent to dry. With only an hour's flight to get home, I was in no hurry. The early departures were lining up quickly, and I didn't need to clog up the system.

Then the Breezy crashed on 36R. That closed the airport for over an hour, and that meant that the taxiways were lined with anxious pilots.

When they opened the airport again and the taxiing aircraft began to move, I packed up my gear and bid friends adieu. I joined the conga line for 36L and taxied for an hour before it was my turn to blast off. The controllers needed to work in the planes that had been holding while the airport was closed.

[Side note: The FAA controllers I worked with this year did not seem to be up to the standard that I'm used to. Aircraft ID was poor and safe aircraft flow was marginal, IMO.]

After 3 Sonexes departed in front of me, I was at the hold line waiting for instructions. The radio was silent. Apparently, the radio of the controller at the hold line had chosen that moment to go belly-up. I could read her lips saying to the other controller, "I can't hear you!" I looked to my right and saw a C-17 on a two-mile final.

I looked pleadingly at the controller on the hold line, making gestures that I can get out before he arrives, but she just looks at me and shrugs. So, I sat there and watched the behemoth make a low pass. I hear some wag say over the radio, "Don, that C-17's gonna squish you like a bug!"

The monster passed overhead and the controller said, "Gray RV with the pirate tail, cleared to take off 36L, left side!" I shoved in the power and mentally tried to imagine what paths the huge cargo plane's wingtip vortices will take and how I can avoid them as I turned to line up with the runway. I decided that fast and straight up is probably the best course of action.

I quickly climbed above the C-17's path and, as he turned downwind, passed over him and out of potential harm's way. As I was climbing out, I heard the somewhat panicked controller say, "Don't let anyone else take off until the wake turbulence is gone. We nearly lost that one!" Sheesh.

The moral of the story is: Be prepared for the unexpected. This ain't your mama's airport. If everybody plays by the rules (the NOTAM), there are few issues. However, there are those who won't, or don't, and you have to be prepared to adapt, improvise and overcome.