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  #11  
Old 07-29-2014, 04:05 AM
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Rhino889 Rhino889 is offline
 
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NO-no-no

COMPLETELY INCORRECT

OUR VINYL WRAP IS DRY INSTALLED

Do you know how many bare aluminum aircraft use vinyl markings?

Sorry, but your statements are completely incorrect.

"Porous": of course not!
"Water based lubricant": of course not (maybe 10 years ago)

Respectfully.... What you describe is completely incorrect.

Regards,
Scott Farnsworth


Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Avgas View Post
Bevan, All vinyl wraps will be porous. They have to be. Professional wrap installers use a water based lubricant under the wrap to enable it to be eased across the surface to final position. Over a number of days after application the moisture escapes through pores in the wrap. If you use clear wrap you can actually see the process taking place over several days.

I think it would be fair to assume that vinyls that let moisture travel in one direction would also allow it to migrate in the other direction as well.

Vinyl wraps and decals have been used on cars, trucks and aircraft for many years. BUT it has traditionally been applied over painted surfaces. You wont find any Boeing aircraft with wrap over bare Alclad.

Will the corrosion of bare Alclad be made worse by the application of a wrap? I think that there is some real possibility that it could be made worse. But I doubt that there is enough history of anyone applying wrap over bare metal for a definitive judgement to be made. People who want to take it on will be the beta testers.

Many builders have commented on the corrosion they have found under the blue protective film supplied on Vans components. Generally these components have never been in the weather. They corrode indoors simply from moisture in the air. I found some corrosion under my blue film when it was removed. In particular it was prone to occur where the Alclad had been printed. No doubt the digital printing ink that they used was hygroscopic and therefore attracted moisture which was able to travel in through pores in the film.

Of course the worst corrosion is hidden corrosion and it might be very difficult to establish the extent of corrosion of bare Alclad under an opaque wrap until the wrap is removed. Conceivably that could result in a very nasty and expensive surprise.

Personally I'd be inclined to let others who are more desperate to save a dollar take the unknown risk.
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  #12  
Old 07-29-2014, 07:35 AM
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AircraftWraps AircraftWraps is offline
 
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Bevan,

If you are at oshkosh this week please come see our examples on the field. We'll help you out "going it alone".

We've developed a very specific install process.

Please disregard post from others discussing "unknown to us" vinyl and install techniques that are not used.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bevan View Post
Good points all.

Bob,

The vinyl wrap of today goes on dry. At least with the 3M that I am testing with, has tiny "grooves" or air channels in the adhesive that allows the air to be squeegeed out and seems to make sort of a vacuum seal. It is down strong immediately once squeegeed. I would think it would get a little stronger in stick over time but that's only a guess. Hopefully not so much stick that it's too labour intensive to remove eventually.

Perry,

Do you agree that the vinyl of today is non-porous?

I don't expect a paint job to look good for ever. I also don't expect a vinyl job to last for ever. However, I do expect them to age differently. The paint will tend to fade and erode away. The vinyl will fade and likely start to lift around the edges at some point. I expect to pull it up and redo, or paint 5-10 years down the road. Perhaps there will be something different by then.

In addition, I plan to remove the vinyl on a small piece (ie: elevator or trim tab) after some underermined time (say two years) and inspect. If all is well, re-apply new vinyl. Then two years or so later, pull up a different piece to get a feel for any corrosion, and ease of removal, and repeat

PS. I plan to attempt the vinyl myself and the aircraft will be hangared. Otherwise there may be no paint for the forseable future.

Bevan
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  #13  
Old 07-29-2014, 10:37 AM
Bevan Bevan is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AircraftWraps View Post
Bevan,

If you are at oshkosh this week please come see our examples on the field. We'll help you out "going it alone".
Thanks. I'm on the west coast and don't plan on Osh until sometime after the RV7 is done. I would like to wrap all the pieces before final assembly, so the wrap (or paint) will get done before it flies. However, any online assistance is greatly appreciated. I'm sure there are many others here who could benefit from your knowledge also. If it was discussed here where you advertise, you could benefit too.

Could you comment on 10year+ corrosion control when 3m is applied directly to alclad? ie: Moisture wicking from the edges, moisture getting into the seams from the inside of structures etc.

Thanks

Bevan
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  #14  
Old 07-29-2014, 07:27 PM
Captain Avgas Captain Avgas is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bevan View Post
Good points all.

Bob,

The vinyl wrap of today goes on dry. At least with the 3M that I am testing with, has tiny "grooves" or air channels in the adhesive that allows the air to be squeegeed out and seems to make sort of a vacuum seal. It is down strong immediately once squeegeed. I would think it would get a little stronger in stick over time but that's only a guess. Hopefully not so much stick that it's too labour intensive to remove eventually.

Perry,

Do you agree that the vinyl of today is non-porous?

Bevan
Bevan, I must admit that I've been out of the game for well over a decade so there have obviously been technological changes to the process. Sorry about that. In the past a water based "slip aid" was used for the application of wraps but obviously that is no longer the case.

However some protective films are still wet applied including clear protective films such as 3M Scotchguard Paint Protection Film. Car window tints are also still wet applied. The residual moisture then migrates out through the film.

The point however is not whether wraps are wet applied or dry applied. The point is whether they are porous or not. Scotchguard Paint Protection Film is perhaps 4 times the thickness of your typical wrap film but it is obviously quite porous as it allows the water used during application to migrate out through the film.

Are "dry applied" wrap films porous. Well I would suggest that they probably are, and that it is just a matter of degree of porosity.

Maybe if you are intending to wrap your RV you might consider degreasing and alodining the aluminium surface first. Alodining is cheap and it is no big deal to apply and it will passivate the surface under the wrap to inhibit possible corrosion creep. It will also give you some modest degree of protection in the numerous areas where you will not be able to apply the wrap.
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